There's about as much chance of this happening in today's political climate as me winning the Powerball lottery. There isn't even handgun carry allowed everywhere and this would help more folks than Class 3 stuff...

 

There's about as much chance of this happening in today's political climate as me winning the Powerball lottery. There isn't even handgun carry allowed everywhere and this would help more folks than Class 3 stuff...

Our problem is that we have been on the defensive and let the opposition define the political climate. We need to fight harder than them. They went against the odds and a significant majority and passed Obamacare, and we're only going to continue losing our liberties if we don't take the political offensive.

It's disheartening how many people take the attitude that "we can't win."

 

Knock yourself out dude. I was just stating my opinion.

IMHO, we need to fight battles we actually have a chance to win as that sets the stage for the next one. "They" didn't regulate everything overnight and we will not de-regulate everything overnight - this will be a long battle one small piece at a time...

 

You can't win every battle, but even some you don't win are worth fighting in order to obtain an ultimate objective. When the Dems started Obamacare, their prospects looked bleak. But they (and compliant RINOs) have been chipping away at our liberties for decades. They've lost a lot of skirmishes along the way.

OK, how about this. I propose we actually set our target on the Gun Control Act of 1968. Fight that battle tooth and nail. Then, if we need to regroup, we settle for repeal of the Hughes Amendment, thereby reopening the machine gun registry.

And I take issue with your statement that concealed carry helps more than access to machine guns. The Hughes amendment is a dangerous assault on the 2A, and it should be destroyed.

 

I take exception to your exception. If you have the funds - you can buy a machine gun right now. The folks in Chicago, NYC, and (many in) California (among others) CANNOT carry regardless of how much money they have.

You just don't have the $$$, these folks are blocked by the law - now which is more important?

 

I would love to fill a safe full of Class III stuff.

If you think opening it up is going to happen, I got some property that I will sell you in AZ got a nice view of the new Southern Ocean.

I am in 100% total agreement with NGIB here. CCW laws would go further in helping rid out nation of scum.

Everyone has to have a fight if this is yours so be it more power to you.

I just believe that people all over this country should be allowed to defend themselves first.

NGIB makes a great point that you are only blocked because you don't have enough money. If you really want an M-16 or M-60 then you will scrimp and save to get one. The People of NYC, CA, Ill, and a few other nanny commie states are blocked by law from defending themselves. I think that takes a bigger precedence than "I want a MG so I can burn ammo at the range".

 

My point was that the GCA is just as serious an assault on the 2A as concealed carry regs.

In fact, it may be more so -- the GCA restricts a whole lot more people than the few who are forbidden to carry. If you look at the numbers who would benefit from repealing the GCA, they are far more numerous than the few who would benefit from opening CC in a few more jurisdictions.

You say we can't win in this political climate, but all it takes to change the political climate is citizens willing to do it. The opposition is constantly pushing. Let's not sit back and let them.

You guys won't demand your rights because you don't think you'll get them. But you'll never get them if you don't demand them. It's a pretty simple equation.

 

I'd like to buy a machine gun, but they're extremely expensive unless it's a law enforcement purchase.

Let's get it reopened so you can buy machine guns at reasonable prices again, and more people can afford them.

Yup, it's clear to me what your motivation is by the above quotes from your post - you want to be able to afford a machine gun. If you really think this compares in importance to citizens that cannot even carry a gun for defense - shame on you.

I'm done here...

 

Wow. You'd think this would be a place to find champions of the second amendment.

My motivation is liberty, and I'm willing to take action to regain lost liberties. Concealed carry is not the only issue relevant to our liberties, and I don't see why I should be ashamed of myself for advancing a multi-front battle to restore them.

I've run into opposition from people who already own a machine gun. They don't want to reopen the registry because it will cause them to lose value. They're willing to trade my liberty for their financial gain. Shame on them.

 

If you really think it will cause them to lose value your nuts. They are going to still be $10k+ unless you start making billions of them a day.

Neither one of us are against it. I said I would love it. I just know that you need to walk before you run. People all over the country can't own a pistol. How do you think the people who did that are going to feel with a bunch of people running around with uzi's? They are going to fight harder against that then the did for the health care bill.....

Fighting for rights is like arguing with a teenager. You have to pick your battles or else your going to lose them all....

If you did get it opened back up there would be so many hoops to jump through that it would not even be worth it.

I applaud your effort I really do. We are just saying that we need to fix other laws first.

I for one think that if you have a CCW in Virginia then it should be valid in all other 49 states no matter what. All the states need to have a standardized course for CCW that way it is all the same therefor granting you a right to CCW just about anywhere in the country.

 

OK lets back up.

Just about anyone who can own a firearm in the USA can also own a Class III item like a MG or suppressor.

The problem is they are costly. Cheapest MG I have seen was an M-16a1 with full auto it went for $10 -12k not to bad really. That is not a big deal in my eyes. I know how I was with full autos in the military and I would have to be as rich as Billy Gates to afford owning an M-60 or M-2 and I would have to take over the world to afford an M-134.

I think we should be able to use a suppressor to hunt that way I don't need to wear bulky hearing protection while hunting or spend half a months pay on a set of custom molded ear plugs specifically made for hunting.

This is like saying it should be ok to drive a NASCAR cup car on the street because it is safer than a production car.

Again it is great you are fighting for the 2a. I will say it again you need to pick your battles or you will lose them all.....

 

It's simple economics. The machine guns are already being manufactured in huge numbers, and market price for an M16 is under $1000. For civilians, though, the supply is fixed by the inability to register any new ones. Closing the registry caused the price for civilian transfers to increase 2000%. LE transfers are still at market price. Reopening the registry will restore civilian transfers to market price.

As to winning one fight at a time, it can't be done because the opposition is fighting several fronts at once. We can't turn a blind eye to the assault on our liberties from all fronts. They are setting the agenda and we're losing our liberties bit by bit.

It doesn't matter whether we give them a new target -- they're coming for us anyway. We're already losing. Keep that in mind. In fact let's give them a target. Keep them moving, deplete their resources, and engage. It's time to change our tactics; we need to take the offensive instead of continuing to react.

If we don't use the political processes at our disposal, we're just handing them victory. Give me a fighter. Who's with me?

 

im with ya snoman...and your right on the prices that MG's go for...military,law enforcment agencies,ect... get the the good deals
but that is because they buy more than one or two at a time...i have seen m-16,m-4's go for a mere 650.00 for military,but they are buying 200k at a time..i think we would have a better chance trying to get free lap dances @ bingo then getting the GCA abolished or rewriten????
after all its only fair for citizens to have anything our government has
fight the good fight

 

I quit I am waving a white flag.

If you can't listen to reason I give up.

 

im with ya snoman...and your right on the prices that MG's go for...military,law enforcment agencies,ect... get the the good deals
but that is because they buy more than one or two at a time...i have seen m-16,m-4's go for a mere 650.00 for military,but they are buying 200k at a time..i think we would have a better chance trying to get free lap dances @ bingo then getting the GCA abolished or rewriten????
after all its only fair for citizens to have anything our government has
fight the good fight

Thanks m72law!

Don't underestimate the power of a free market to supply goods at value. The marginal manufacturing cost of making a gun fully auto vs. semi auto is minuscule. Reopen the registry and they'll be cheap.

And I think you guys are all underestimating the power of demand in the political arena as well. The odds of winning are determined by the strength of our own determination.

We conservatives and libertarians aren't used to thinking this way. We just want to live our lives and mind our own business, but the socialists, the fascists, and the statists of every stripe are intent on controlling our lives, and they are relentless in their pursuit of power. We can no longer afford to sit on the couch and complain.

As we sit here at the computer and discuss this, we're losing, right now. Bill Clinton is accusing Tea Party patriots of terrorist acts that haven't happened yet, just begging infiltrators to commit those acts so the statist media can blame it on the Tea Party movement.

Consider the impact of small changes, if carefully chosen. Compare the following sentences:

1. We are now allowing the opposition to steal our liberties.
2. We are not allowing the opposition to steal our liberties.

A single letter changes the meaning of the phrase. Similarly, a small targeted change in your own mindset can alter the future of our country.

I have five children whose future is being stolen from them. I can't sit back and let that happen. I wish everyone would get off the couch and come with me.

 

You are absolutely right Snoman.

The way all these laws got passed in the first place was the whittling down of our 2ND amendment rights a little at a time. All the bird hunters don't give a damn if the laws are going after high powered rifles and all the deer hunters don't give a damn if the laws are going after pistols and so on and so on. So one by one they have made firearms illegal because a large segment of the firearm owners are only concerned if their ox is getting gored. Instead of standing firm together, the old adage of divide and conquer has absolutely worked to destroy the right of all. These past posts prove my point.

As for me, as a legitimate firearms user, you have my support regardless of what you want to shoot or carry for that matter. Our forefathers knew the importance of the 2ND Amendment and when the 2ND Amendment falls this country is over.

 

I quit I am waving a white flag.

If you can't listen to reason I give up.

The opposition never gives up and never waves the white flag.

My position is well-reasoned, Tango. The current way of thinking has got us where we are now. It's the opposition that won't listen to reason, and we've been waving the white flag at them far too long. We need a single-minded, relentless focus on the political defeat of those who deprive of us liberty, and we need to engage them in political battle on every front on which they assault us.

You want to give ground on Class III weapons today. Tomorrow you'll lose all the ground we've gained in the arena of concealed carry.

 

Dragonheart, you and m72law are a breath of fresh air. While we sit here debating whether the battle can be won, our opponents are fighting us on all fronts.

We didn't choose this battle -- they did. We just have to fight.

 

OK last time for you who can't figure it out yet.

1. If you can own a rifle or pistol them more than likely you can own a Class III weapon.

2. Many more people can't own a handgun that can't own Class III.

Can you own a Class III?

If yes

Why don't you?

They cost too much work harder save more money and buy one.

These people are still trying to ban handguns what makes you think they are going to open Class III to anyone? It is a lofty goal but there is just no way in this country at this time it will happen. Why not focus more power towards something we can fix like CCW.

You can't own an AR in Ca unless it's some abomination that looks like mickey mouse created it. They are not going to let you own a Class III.

Now if we can get the handgun ban lifted then work on the Assault weapon ban then we work on the class III and other stuff.

This stuff no matter how wrong was done for a reason. Liberals think it is protecting us from the bad guys.

 

its ridiculous that a $5 part to make a rifle a machine gun is like $5000(or more)

 

Knock yourself out dude. I was just stating my opinion.

IMHO, we need to fight battles we actually have a chance to win as that sets the stage for the next one. "They" didn't regulate everything overnight and we will not de-regulate everything overnight - this will be a long battle one small piece at a time...

what in the heck is IMHO? Also what is IMO?

 

what in the heck is IMHO? Also what is IMO?

In My Humble Opinion. Drop the Humble for IMO...

 

OK last time for you who can't figure it out yet.

1. If you can own a rifle or pistol them more than likely you can own a Class III weapon.

2. Many more people can't own a handgun that can't own Class III.

Can you own a Class III?

If yes

Why don't you?

They cost too much work harder save more money and buy one.

These people are still trying to ban handguns what makes you think they are going to open Class III to anyone? It is a lofty goal but there is just no way in this country at this time it will happen. Why not focus more power towards something we can fix like CCW.

You can't own an AR in Ca unless it's some abomination that looks like mickey mouse created it. They are not going to let you own a Class III.

Now if we can get the handgun ban lifted then work on the Assault weapon ban then we work on the class III and other stuff.

This stuff no matter how wrong was done for a reason. Liberals think it is protecting us from the bad guys.

So according to you, we can't reopen the registry unless they "let us." Of course they're not going to "let us" have Class III! I'm not looking for them to "let me" reopen the registry, I'm looking for some people who will fight for our right to reopen the registry.

Tango, you present the textbook case of the sort of mindset I'm trying to change. You talk like we need their permission for our rights. We don't. We have to take them. They stole our rights in the first place -- they're not going to give them back.

Right now there are only two states in which CC is entirely denied. How much progress do you want to make on this single issue before you start working on another front??

Our liberties are being assaulted everywhere, not just the 2A. The government

1. tells us how much water our toilets can flush,
2. what kind of light bulbs and appliances we have to buy,
3. how much we have to pay our employees,
4. forces us to buy health insurance whether we like it or not,
5. uses our taxes to pay for the gruesome murder of babies in the womb,
6. dictates the educational curriculum of our children,
7. subjects our newborns to medical tests without our consent,
8. spends the nation into bankruptcy,
9. steals from half the citizens and with that money buys the votes of the other half,
10. and just generally ignores its constitutional limitations.

Meanwhile we have a bunch of sheepish citizens watching all this happen and urging us to continue the same feckless do-little strategy that has got us in this mess. People like NGIB have served their country in the armed forces, and maybe they feel like they've paid their dues. OK, let every man be guided by his conscience.

But most of us have done little or nothing to defend our liberties until now, and we've lost them. The most subversive enemy of our liberties is right now the ruling class in the government. Those elected representatives need to be replaced or subjected to intense political pressure to give up their power, and the unelected tyrants known as bureaucrats, czars, and executive agencies have to be fired and dismantled.

I do not now and never have advocated violence in opposition to government, but I do insist that those live under the banner of liberty in this country get active and defend that liberty. And right now we're in a serious crisis.

So come along and let's take our country back.

 

I have nothing against full auto. I understand that you want one. I do not need one. Nor do I want one. I spend enough time reloading now. I have a safe full of guns. Until everyone else is allowed to own a hand gun, and carry it for self defense, this is not an argument I am ready to fight for.

 

I have nothing against full auto. I understand that you want one. I do not need one. Nor do I want one. I spend enough time reloading now. I have a safe full of guns. Until everyone else is allowed to own a hand gun, and carry it for self defense, this is not an argument I am ready to fight for.

What if I said "I have nothing against CC. I understand you'd like to CC, but it doesn't matter to me and I don't want to. It's too heavy and uncomfortable. I work from home and have plenty of guns there. But I do want a machine gun, and until they reopen the registry I'm not going to help you with your CC cause."

We need to help each other. As long as we don't, we'll keep losing our liberties.