Your HONEST Beliefs of Morality

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by parinoid54, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. parinoid54

    parinoid54 New Member

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    In my almost 60 years on this earth, a child raised in Texas, and an Army combat veteran, I have always tried to live as a law fearing person; trying to submit to the written word and spirit of law.

    BUT...no matter anything, I live (and will die) by a belief that I will not forego, that -

    I WILL BE JUDGED BY 12, BEFORE BEING CARRIED BY 6.

    What are YOUR beliefs? I ask for your true, heart felt beliefs and pray that I am not one of a small minority. I have interveined between a "man" who was abusing a woman, be it verbally or phyiscally, often to my being beaten down, but with no regrets. I have no hesitation "getting involved" in an apparent violent situation for the benefit of the weak. Decades ago, while camping in a state park and late at night, a woman began screeming. I got up, dressed, and armed myself while my wife yelled at me not to go; to stay in our tent; to ignore her screams. I couldn't. By the time I ran down the trail, it was over with other men having interceded. There was no peace in my home for days.

    I guess this is a morality question. If you carry a firearm for defense, are you willing to use it in defense of others, of complete strangers, or only yourself?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2011
  2. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Way to many folks believe a permit to carry turns them into some form of LE or public avenger. Sorry but unless the situation is ABSOLUTELY clear and has NO margin for error - my gun stays holstered except for threats to me or my family. The classic scenario that is posted all the time, you walk up on this situation:

    A scruffy poorly dressed fella is fighting with a well dressed fella. The scruffy guy produces a gun and they are wrestling for control. Do you intervene? Who is the good guy in this situation? Is the scruffy guy a vice cop trying to bring down a well dressed perp?

    Things are not always what they appear to be...
     

  3. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    As stated by NGIB, "Things may not always be what they appear to be..."

    Solely depends on the type of situation and the variables of options I may have present at that particular time, I may not need to use my firearm. But anyone will have my complete, undivided attention, especially if it involves an obvious physical or lethal threat, because there is a possibility that their problem may inadvertently, become my problem as well.

    Morality has a very fine line to some, that is often crossed, especially when it comes to one's personal choice of what is right, what is wrong, and what one may consider immoral.
     
  4. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    lawyers (and liberal judges) have put TRUE MORALS ON THE LOWEST RUNG OF THE LADDER in today's society..........laws that are so open to interpretation that some high dollar suit that studies Webster's Dictionary for new meanings for word definitions IS THE ONLY "WINNER."

    IT'S A PERVERSE TRAVESTY AND A MOCHARY OF THE LEGAL SYSTEM.

    i am only 35, but many of us down here were raised with the morals that you speak of; but unfortunately, as previously mentioned, w/o knowing the details of the situation @ hand, ONE PUTS HIMSELF/HERSELF IN HARMS WAY MANY TIMES OVER BY USING MORAL JUDGEMENT ALONE IN THESE TIMES.

    BE CAREFUL, AND KNOW THY NEIGHBOR!
     
  5. masterPsmith

    masterPsmith New Member

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    First and foremost, my firearm is to protect me and/or my family in any givin situation where death or great bodily injury is a possibility. For anyone other than current or former LEO, to interject in any other situation where deadly force my be needed is not wise. You are not trained or experienced in interpreting any givin situation and interfearing just may get you or someone else severely injuried or killed. Your actions, based soley on morality and lack of experience or training, will more than likely land you in jail or more. I am retired LEO and as such, there are only a few situations that I know of that I would get personally involved. All else would be to call police and observe and record all info that I can to pass on. I will protect life when and if necessary, but will not use my firearm to protect property. Remember, if you present a firearm, you better be ready to use it and only in the proper situation. Use of a firearm is using deadly force.


    Jim...............
     
  6. DocWard

    DocWard New Member

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    I've intervened in domestic abuse situations, and no regrets, other than the dental work that resulted. I would do so again if the situation arose. My hunch is that if I were confronted by a woman screaming, or anyone for that matter, my first inclination would be to move toward the problem to see what I could do to assist or rectify it. With a military background and as a medic, that is sort of ingrained.

    However, use of a firearm becomes an entirely different matter. As others have pointed out, deadly force can become very problematic very quickly. IGETEVEN perhaps said it best, that the different variables may very well dictate the options at hand, but I will be focused, because whatever the situation, it could become my problem quickly, regardless of my actions or intent.
     
  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Impossible to predict because the situation is yet to present itself.

    I don't think anyone here on this forum would sit by why a police officer was beat down by a group of people.

    I don't think any of these guys would just grab their copy of the newspaper and their cup of joe and walk out of the Starbucks that is getting robbed at gun point by some idiot waving a pistol around in people's faces.

    If you were out walking the dog and a woman came running out of the woods with her clothes torn and screaming bloody murder trying to get away from something I kind of doubt the folks here would just snug their hood on a little tighter and change direction.

    If you have a pistol that you carry, you have taken on a responsibility with it. That doesn't give you super powers and it doesn't give you Monday Morning Quarterback foresight, but it does give you a responsibility that needs to be taken seriously.

    If you choose to sit by and watch something unfold that you could have stopped, would you be okay with that memory for the rest of your days? Especially if your inaction led to someone elses' time here coming to an abrupt end??

    Personally I couldn't live with myself if I had chosen to do nothing.

    JD
     
  8. Wenonah

    Wenonah New Member

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    If a robery is underway the best thing anyone with a weapon can do is remain calm and try to be the very best witness possible. Only when shots are fired or you are convinced that someone is about to suffer serious injury as a result of another's criminal act are you justified in using deadly force. Taking it to the next level not only endangers you but everyone present and depending on the jurisdiction can potentially make you criminally liable. If you do have to act do so decisively until the threat has been negated and remember these two sentences.

    "I didn't have any choice; I thought he was going to kill me. I don't want to say anything else until I've spoken to my lawyer."
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
  9. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    There are many liability issues in intervening, even WITHOUT a gun.

    The first being we're NOT trained or insured LEOs.

    Even if you do everything right, LE could land on you like a ton of

    bricks. IF you do ANYTHING wrong, you'll certainly wish you did nothing.

    Don't do it for gratitude or recognition, they're just archaic words in a dictionary these days. If you do it for self-satisfaction, hopefully you'll get it.

    MY MANTRA:

    I'M NOT the Police, FBI,CIA, a PI, Captain America, The A-Team, Deputy

    Dawg, or even Danger Mouse! I'M NOT the...
     
  10. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    it's just the sad world we live in where everyone wants to sue everyone b/c they helped too much, or they didn't help enough..........you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.

    it is very sad, and very unjust because "do unto others," and "an eye for an eye," mean absolutely nothing to those that legally bind our hands.
     
  11. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    Mine is clear & simple: "What goes around, comes around"

    In defense of others in need, without question, doubt, or hesitation.
     
  12. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Maybe there's a good reason that at the onset

    of every revolution they immediately line up

    all the lawyers against a wall and shoot them...
     
  13. Boggy5

    Boggy5 New Member

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    I'll take liability issues over a conscience reminding me I did nothing when I should have. There are two types of sins: sins of commission, where I knowingly do something wrong; and sins of ommission, where I fail to do what I know is right.

    If you are truly a man with something hanging between your legs you will help the helpless. Two men wrestling on the street, they're both men, let them be. A man vs. a woman, if the man doesn't a have a badge showing he's going to be forced to show it.

    I remember a big news story not too long ago where a girl was raped in alley between two apartment complexes. The girl went to the police station to report what happened, the police then came to the apartment building to interview and see if there were any witnesses, they figured there wasn't a good chance because nobody called to report the crime. 38 people said they saw the rape either before it actually happened or while it was taking place. Not one phone call was made to the police, they assumed someone else would call; not one person intervened, too scared. We need less Americans like the people of these two apartment complexes and more who are willing to fill in for the police, until they arrive; whether they get in trouble or not. And I don't think people who step in are doing it for gratitude or recognition, they're doing it because they have a sense of justice and a moral compass that isn't corrupted.
     
  14. 556plinker

    556plinker New Member

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    I do not believe I'm the record, observe and wait on the police type of guy if presented with a situation when someone's life is in imminent danger....never been presented with that situation to date, thank God. My conscience would get the better of me for doing nothing. You take chances in life and if it bites you in the rear you might be dead or injured but at least you had the cajones to do right. There are too many scenarios for a one size fits all attempt to render aid....assailant armed with a knife, unarmed, armed with a firearm, unknown and on and on. Here is what I would do in this example: Guy with knife beating bleeding woman with the possiblity of inflicting more stab wounds. I would do what was necessary to halt the aggression. Honestly, I would probably shoot the S.O.B. in the leg or foot if it didn't stop after a close warning shot. That would get his attention and diffuse the situation long enough for the boys in blue to arrive. If I didn't have a gun I think I would grab the nearest handy thing and engage in combat, axe handle, tire iron etc....If he pulls out a gun, well, my bad. As far as the legal implications, you have the moral high ground as you have probably just shot/injured a felon with a lengthly rap sheet.
     
  15. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    A couple of days ago a 9 year old boy was being sexually assaulted by a homeless man at a park. Then the man tried to kidnap the boy. Three people interivened. Two women and a man with a golf club. The homeless man was arrested. This happened one block from my house! He is lucky I was not one of the people present!
     
  16. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Yes, well hopefully when the wrong thing happens, we'll all do what's right.

    Then be treated by LE accordingly.
     
  17. Boggy5

    Boggy5 New Member

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    therewolf, did you have a bad experience with a cop? You act like they are out there to condemn citizens looking out for eachother. Most would pat you on the back in the situations described on this forum.
     
  18. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    It doesn't get any clearer than this. If you have the ability and means, I think you should. Period.

    Not everyone is equipped for such a situation. I know people that own and carry handguns whom I would prefer get to the furtherest known point in space from a situation where a weapon was NEEDED. That doesn't mean I am against their right to carry, they just aren't suited to handle a situation that doesn't directly affect them.

    This may be you, and if you can recognize that, you are a much better person than most. The "risk" of doing "something" and having it go terribly wrong, could tragically outway what you truly know to be your skillset and ability.

    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

    Get on the phone and make a call instead.

    Personally I know that I could not sit by and let an act of violence happen if it is clearly an ambush or one sided confrontation.

    As stated, two semi drunks in a bar having a shoving match? Let them be, that is not my concern unless they are near my table or my woman is near the fray.

    I drive home and see a cop wrestling with some guy on my neighbor's front yard? Someone is getting tackled regardless of the situation.

    If I am in the mall, against my will in the first place, and you want to run up in there like Al Pacino at the end of Scarface while I am trying to enjoy my delicious food court experience? Hell yes I am going to get involved, who the hell you think you are?!? Interrupting a man's chinese food like that?!?!

    The situation should dictate the response, but there should be a response.

    You either get involved, or you get someone who is capable of handling it involved with the use of that nifty smartphone you got. But to turn your back and pretend it didn't happen, or think that someone else will phone it in, makes you lower than whale sh!t in my eyes.

    JD
     
  19. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    "Not everyone is equipped for such a situation. I know people that own and carry handguns whom I would prefer get to the furtherest known point in space from a situation where a weapon was NEEDED. That doesn't mean I am against their right to carry, they just aren't suited to handle a situation that doesn't directly affect them."

    Well said remember what Dirty Harry said "A mans got to know is limitations"
     
  20. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    with "great" food like that, you never know, they might've just saved your life!:D:cool:

    but seriously, i have heard of instances where a "hero" tries to help a distressed woman from her: husband, boyfriend, friend-boy, whatever, and after he receives his beatdown (or start of a beatdown), the "fair maiden" either: tries to combat, beats on, stabs, shoots, or injures the "hero" because he was assaulting her "lover/friend." it's all about knowing HOW TO HANDLE AND CONTROL THE SITUATION, and keeping everyone, including yourself, SAFE!

    i know it is the chivalrous thing to do, HELL IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, but chivalry won't protect you from an escalated situation that you aren't trained or prepared for..........it can get you, the protector, AND them, the protected.....DEAD!

    BE CAREFUL OUT THERE AND BE CAUTIOUS AS YOU ACT!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011