You just can't appease Terrorists

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by BigO01, Sep 21, 2008.

  1. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Well now what an eventful week this has been for the fools in Pakistan .

    First they threaten to fire on American troops trying to root out Taliban and al Qaeda Terrorists hiding out in mountains in their country which one would think would make the terrorists happy .

    Now they received their reward for those threats against America by having dozens being killed in a suicide truck bombing on a Marriott Hotel in Islamabad .

    President Asif Ali Zardari has said they will not be afraid of the cowardly terrorists yet they want to hinder the American effort to find and bring them to justice .

    Sounds to me like they do nothing BUT live in fear , too afraid to take a firm stand against the animals that bomb civilians yet also afraid to let them run their country .

    As the old saying goes

    Time to crap or get off the pot !
     
  2. Slickrick214

    Slickrick214 New Member

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    Good thats what they get. I don't feel sorry for them at all.
     

  3. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    My apologies if this starts a flame war, but I can't honestly stand that "Kill them all" attitude.

    It's never ok for innocent people to die, regardless of what country they are in.

    Pakistan is making a mistake by not letting us deal with the terrorists, but that doesn't mean they deserve bombings and lost lives.

    Realistically, Pakistan has their own sovereign right to deal with the terrorist problem as they see fit. Just like we are dealing with the terrorist problem as we see fit. As good Americans, we should not "condemn" a country just because they may disagree with us on the terrorist issue. We need to diplomatically engage Pakistan further to see if we can convince them to let us in. Otherwise, if they choose to handle the terrorists on their own, so be it, and I wish Pakistan good luck (we will still be watching, though).
     
  4. Slickrick214

    Slickrick214 New Member

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    O well thats war...get over it. Civilians die in war. Its been like that for thousands of years. I'm tired of arguments from people that want to fight a war without killing people. It doesn't work like that. Fighting a war with political restraints will never work. It didn't work in Vietnam and its not going to work now. Save your "save the world don't kill people" bs for the Obama campaign.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2008
  5. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    In a traditional sense, I would agree with you.

    But we are not fighting a traditional enemy. We are fighting people who believe a politico-religious ideology that spreads through conquest and subjugation. History bears that out.

    There are an estimated 1.2 billion Muslims. How many have stood up in defiance of those committing mass-murder in the name of their faith? Precious few.

    Does their silence imply complicity? On what side should we err?
     
  6. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    I think we all need to realize that we are Americans, and as Americans we need to value all innocent life. We need to conduct this war in a way that minimizes collateral damage as much as possible.

    To say that a country deserves a bombing of one of it's hotels because they disagree with us, is absolutely not American in my humble opinion. We are better than that.

    Regardless of what we think, Pakistan is it's own sovereign nation with it's own political/religous ideals. We do need to stop all terrorists that are fleeing into their country, that is true. We cannot do this by just flexing our muscles. We need to be smart about this, and avoid straining our relations with the middle east any further.

    Any time our relations are strained, the terrorists will use that to their advantage to recruit more members into their fold. This means more suicide bombings, IEDs, VBIEDs, etc.......
     
  7. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    We have minimized collateral damage significantly in Iraq and Afghanistan to our own expense in blood and treasure.

    Is it significantly different to say "they deserved what they got" and "I saw that coming"? We didn't bomb that hotel and cause 53 deaths, those we are fighting did. We encouraged a mode of behavior on the part of the Pakistani government that might have staved off that attack. Instead, they tried to be chummy with (appease) our enemies and got bitten. Hard.

    First, what do we do about the terrorists who have already fled into Pakistan? Just pretend they don't exist?

    Second, yes, Pakistan is a sovereign nation and their borders should be respected. But if they are knowingly harboring, aiding, financing, training and arming our enemies, that would make them our de facto enemy, would it not?

    Third, I don't give a rat's flying crap about straining relations anywhere, including the Middle East. When they sh!tcan their fatwas, stand down and rethink their holy book, then we can concern ourselves with straining relations.

    Great! Bring the little turds out of the woodwork. They're just that much easier to target.
     
  8. user4

    user4 New Member

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    You're a good guy, Sgt Miller. That much is clear. You have a heart and a brain and seem to know when to use them, which to me, is a valuable commodity.

    It is a difficult task to defeat terrorism. One could say that an isolationist approach would benefit our country best. Throw up a wall and keep the bad guys out and the good people in. However that is neither realistic or advisable (not that you suggested this) The problem we face is that the bad guys are elsewhere and it is best for us to defeat them on their ground rather than our own. We aren't in Pakistan to make the Pakistanis safe, we're there to make AMERICA safe.

    We are not the world's police and we need to quit acting like it. We don't want terrorists on the home front, but we can't interfere with people's right to be an a$$holes. So what do we do?

    It seems to me that the best recourse is to tell Americans to arm themselves and arm themselves GOOD. Educate the people on how to defend the home, how to spot an enemy, and when to take a life. We are all soldiers in this fight against terrorism. And the sooner we all, from every nationality here, recognize that we are ALL Americans, the better.


    Wow...my thought train just went all over the place. Sorry about that.
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    There are some great points of view and one thing is clear, that we all value the sanctity of human life.

    As members of the United States we can't condone the outright slaying of innocents and never will. We don't use the same tactics that are being used by our enemies. We don't condone them, we don't applaud them, and we won't stoop to their level in any form.

    The problem with Islam, as bkt has been pointing out from the beginning, is that they don't value human life the same way we do. They don't differentiate between an American Civilian and an American Combatant.

    For that matter, they do not differentiate between a non-member of Islam Innocent and a non-member of Islam who is a Combatant.

    Everyone who isn't with Islam is AGAINST ISLAM

    While we can't terminate the planet to get to them, we have to be willing to accept the battleground that is laid before us by our enemies.

    Surgical strikes need to be used, and precision fire needs to be used, but we also have to acknowledge that this war is not in the trenches like it was during the World Wars.

    We do not have a true "enemy stronghold" that we have benefitted from in the past.

    Much like the British, who weren't prepared for the battle in the America's once the Colonials weren't willing to stand in front of them in a convenient line and shoot back and forth, we need to adapt to a new playing field.

    It may not always be the war we want, but it is the war we are going to get.

    JD
     
  10. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    I can agree with the first paragraph SGT but in sending in small groups of troops rather than calling for a blanket bombing campaign we were trying to prevent the unnecessary loss of life "collateral damage" and they threaten our troops .

    The problem is they weren't and aren't dealing with the problem other than to talk and as such they are providing aid and comfort to our enemy either directly or indirectly .

    As far as us watching well it's way past time for that and has been for 7 years now .

    If Muslims exist that do indeed condemn the cowardly attacks that have been committed world wide then they need do far more than just talk about it they need to take strong forceful action to eliminate the threat the terrorists present not only to us but to them , because the terrorist have no problem with collateral damage even if it includes Muslim women and children walking down a street .

    The Shah of Iran ignored the terrorist/extremest problem and was forced to flee his country or be killed , they will have no qualms in killing any other political leader in any other nation to gain control of it .
     
  11. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    The cowardly tactics of using women and children as human shields, transporting combatants and weapons in ambulances, and using mosques as headquarters cannot cause us to hesitate to kill the bad guys.
    I think that's the only time I agree with "Kill 'em all. Let God sort them out."
     
  12. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    Kill the bad guys, but do what you can to make sure the innocent guys are out of the way first.
     
  13. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I believe the actual quote is: "Kill them all. God shall know His own" Abbot of Citeaux

    JD
     
  14. stetson

    stetson New Member

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    I guess all the billions in aid isn't enough to give us acess to the backcountry we need to to kill the enemies of the United States.
    I amazed a country like ours with all the assests we have we can't find
    one raghead criminal like bin ladin.It's like we are bombing tents with million dollard missles doesn't make much sense.
     
  15. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    Was that before or after "Who's On First"?
     
  16. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Abbot of Citeaux - 1209

    Abbott & Costello - 1940's

    I am going with BEFORE....:p

    JD
     
  17. Slickrick214

    Slickrick214 New Member

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    That’s the biggest bunch of liberal BS I have ever heard. Seriously are you a closet Obama/Hillary campaigner? It sounds like some idiotic trash that would come out of their camps. If we fought with that idiotic mindset in WWII we would be all heil-ing Hitler right now. We won WWII because we bombed the hell out of Germany. We destroyed the Ruhr valley and we leveled every major city in Germany. Yea a lot of German people died but it would have been worse for us if we didn't destroy Germany. Millions of soldiers would have died in the Pacific if we didn't drop the atomic bomb. The Japanese were nuts and they would have killed as many of our guys as possible before they died. We killed thousands of theirs but it saved millions of ours. You really need to pick up a history book. Restrictive warfare and fighting a conventional warfare against irregular forces never works. It didn't work for the Union against Nathan Bedford Forrest. It didn't for us in Vietnam a restrictive warfare didn't work for the Germans in WWI when it came to the U-boats. Take a lesson from history. Thinking like yours and the stupid liberals doesn't work in the real world and in real warfare.
     
  18. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    You obviously have no idea who I am, slickrick.

    I know about warfare. I am a Sergeant in a combat unit in the USAF. I am a conservative, and I've been in combat in Iraq. I am well trained in what I do, and my job is warfare.

    Been there, done that. Will be gladly doing it again soon.

    I have been trained by the US government on alot of aspects of conventional, guerilla, and asymmetrical warfare. My opinion is based on my education, and my experiences in the theatre of war.

    Warfare has evolved from the days of WWII. We cannot use the same tactics as we have then, and I will not get into a long, drawn out discussion over why my opinion is what it is, especially to a civilian who cannot possibly fully understand what is going on in our current war. You receive all of your information from the news stations, and other forms of media which are all biased one way or another. The first thing I learned in my combat training is the media is useless and easily swayed.

    We have also evolved as a country since the days of WWII. Innocent life is precious. The lives of women, children, babies, men, senior citizens are all valuable, and it is against our current military code of conduct and laws of armed conflict to engage civilian targets, or allow civilian targets to be engaged by force.

    My opinion is such because I am bound to it. My duty is to protect civilian life by any means, whether it be conflict, or diplomacy.

    Would you feel the same about your life if you were in that hotel that was bombed that day in Pakistan.

    I will fight and kill, but only against those who deserve to die.

    If you are military, or prior military, slickrick, I suggest you discipline yourself, and maintain some maturity in your posts.

    I know my duty, do your know yours?
     
  19. Slickrick214

    Slickrick214 New Member

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    No and I could really care less

    Its sad we have people like you fighting for this country. We don't need narrow minded people like you fighitng a war. People like you lose wars for countries people like George Patton and Dwight Einsenhower win wars. Your in the airforce have you seen any ground fighting? Have you seen people get beheaded, blown up, bloody decapitated arms and legs flying at you when when people get blown up. These aren't people they're rag head camel jokey savages who deserve to die.

    Good for you but as said already the army is better without you.

    And my opinion is based on historical fact. Again pick up a history modern warfare book instead of what the army brain washes you to believe.

    Ok fine but with stupid thinking like that don't expect to win many wars.

    That has to be the most pitiful argument yet. They don't understand huh..maybe we're looking at two different wars here. The last time I checked these "civilians" who don't know whats going on are the same ones that are blowing our guys up, helping to plant bombs and carrying guns under thier clothes. You really are living in a closet aren't you.

    Again with bs thinking like that don't expect to win any wars. Patton and Eisenhower had the right idea. Bomb the hell out of them and kill as many of them as possible until they have nothing left to fight with.


    I would hope to live if not it was my time to go. These people don't care about life so I don't either. Kill as many of them as possible.

    Yes to kill as many of those rag head camel jokeys as possible.
     
  20. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    Slickrick, all I have left to say is, yes, I have seen death. I am in a combat ground unit that supports USAF air operations. I have seen children die, and I have had friends die. I still have bad dreams because of it.

    I am glad to be in this military so I can defend people like you who voice their opinions without properly educating themselves.

    I just want to ask you a few questions? What have you given for this country? How old are you? Do you know what sacrifice is?

    I won't try to defend my military experience to someone like you. I do not answer to you or anyone else on these forums. I am glad you speak your mind because that is what America is all about.

    Good people are still dying every day, so I will always maintain that every decision that the US government makes must be well-thought out and rational, because every decision means that family members will have to bury their loved ones.

    I'm proud of the accomplishments of the US military so far, because there are alot, and unfortunately the media does not broadcast them.

    I still have faith in the US government, as flawed as it is, even though you obviously couldn't care less.

    You seem to have alot of anger. I invite you to join the armed forces (doesn't matter what branch). We can help you channel that anger into something useful.