You are witnessing a sever beating next door, what do you do?

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by Megaton, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. Megaton

    Megaton New Member

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    Please feel free to move this to the appropriate forum mods.


    I was watching a tv show and it made me think, what would I do? The scenario was a man went to confront a pimp he believed had abducted his daughter and forced her to be a sex slave. The man was beat on the pimps front lawn for 30 minutes or more with tire irons by several individuals before police finally arrived at the scene.

    Neighbors called the police, and after the police did not arrive in a timely manor they called the police again and are told the police are 'on the way.'

    The sad thing is that all of this was something that really happened. It was an msnbc show on underage sex slaves.

    My question is if you are the neighbor witnessing this beating what do you do? Can you legally use lethal force to help this man, or are you forced by the law to watch him get beat potentially to death?

    I hate to say it, but my initial thought was that I would probably try to stop the beating without using lethal force and wait for the police to arrive. If the beating continued dispite my efforts, I would probably retreat into my house and defend myself there. The way things are anymore, I would be too scared that I would end up going to prison if I came to the aid of someone that is clearly in danger of losing their life. Sad that we live in a world where putting yourself in danger to save someones life could cost you your freedom.

    This is probably largely dependent on the state, but my question is, would you be justified in the court of law if you used lethal force to save somebody being beaten by several others? Regardless of the law, what would you do?
     
  2. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    In Texas, lethal force is OK to help someone else out.
     

  3. Jesse17

    Jesse17 New Member

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    I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

    Why do you think that mega (liberal) cities like NY have to pass "Depraved Indifference" laws. It's not because people are just afraid of getting hurt themselves if they come to someones aid. It's just as much because people are afraid of being charged for the act.:mad:

    This is similar to the problem with the 'entitlement' programs. We pass laws giving the government tax money to deal out to the out of work and down on luck people. These people never starved before, the community, churches, and neighbors took care of these people. But you better believe they weren't 'entitled' to this charity, and they weren't going to get it if they were a piece-of-Pelosi, thug too lazy to work. (but that's another rant)

    Now that we've made it the governments problem, it lets us just ignore those in need, with a clear conscience, because "It's not our problem"; "We already paid our taxes for programs for people like that."

    Similarly, we already pay for police protection. It's not our problem if they're getting mugged, it's the polices. "I'm not risking going to jail to help someone else."

    I have to say, if I see someone in need, I'm going to help, and I'm going to use whatever tool I need to do it! Here in Montana I'm sure I could get away with it. I doubt the law is technically on my side, but the police and judges tend to use common sense here.

    /rant off
     
  4. bobbyb13

    bobbyb13 New Member

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    When I was a much, much younger man. (kid)

    I was a 10 or 12 year old kid. Dad and I were at the stock market, when a young a$$hole in his 20's stared giving a older Gent hell over some stock that was being sold. I'll never forget, a Nickel plated pistol apperaring in the old guys hand, and his statement. "Feller you best get away from me, or you're gonna be walking the streets of hell in a second." Made one heck of a impression on this kid.
     
  5. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    If you witness a crime, but do nothing to help the victim, you are as bad as the person committing the crime.

    ...nuff said.
     
  6. bobbyb13

    bobbyb13 New Member

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    There it is!

    And, well said.
     
  7. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Each State's laws are different. In Texas you can use deadly force to defend a third person from imminent death or serious bodily injury.

    Morally, I don't care what State I am in. I will call 911 and assist the person in danger.
     
  8. user4

    user4 New Member

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    It sucks not knowing the facts in such a situation. I know if MY child were abducted, I would murder/torture my way through every villainous f*ck in remote association with the industry until I found her. Maybe not the acceptable answer, but you NEVER touch another man's children.
     
  9. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    Exactly. Intervene no matter what the consequences.
     
  10. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    Foregoing the fact that you should always be armed appropriately when going to confront the kingpin of a sex slave ring, if it was one on one, I'd let them work it out. When multiple thugs beat one guy with tire irons, you've kicked it up a notch, and I'm in there.;)
     
  11. Angrypoonani

    Angrypoonani New Member

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    Move to texas! :D I would have to show someone the muzzle of my gun if they were acting up like that.
     
  12. Franciscomv

    Franciscomv New Member

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    You've got to be really certain of what's going on before getting involved, and even if you're on the right side, you might get into trouble.

    Here's a little personal story. Almost ten years ago (I was around 17) when I was getting home from the gym the neighbour's door opened and a man came out, dragging a screamming lady from her hair and slapping her. She was crying, he was insulting her.

    I confronted him and told him to stop, he insulted me and kept hitting her, at which point I just lost it and decided to make him stop. Long story short, when the police arrived (my mother called them) the guy was on the ground with me on top just rainning down elbow strikes on him.

    I was taken to the precinct, and the nice lady who I'd helped suddenly decided to forgive her boyfriend for the beating she took and told the cops that I had just attacked him for no apparent reason. In my country, bare hand attacks from a trained fighter are considered lethal weapon attacks under the law. At the time I was competing in kick boxing tournaments and spent five to six days a week training either boxing, jiu jitsu or muay thai (now I've cut it down to just four days a week!).

    Luckily, my mom is a fantastic criminal attorney and she got me out of it without so much as a slap on the wrist.
     
  13. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Run a Google search on the name Kitty Genovese. In 1964, Kitty was attacked, and for a period of 32 minutes stabbed, beaten, robbed and raped, while her neighbors watched from the windows. (In Queens, NYC)

    No one did anything except watch.

    Call 911. Then if you are able, intervene. In every state that I know of (disclaimer- not an attorney) you have the right to intervene as a citizen when a serious felony (attempted murder) is taking place in front of you. In many states, you have a DUTY to intervene. does not mean you simply walk out and start shooting people- it means a resonable degree of force to meet or overcome force.
     
  14. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    I try and help and if thing got ugly and out of hand, I'd pray that someone on the jury would be practicing jury nullification. I know I would under the circumstances.
     
  15. JiroZero713

    JiroZero713 Active Member

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    Doesn't matter if I'm in Illinois or California...or any gun hating state.

    I'm going to blow the person's brains out if they don't back off and leave someone alone in that situation.
     
  16. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    You have a moral responsibility to intervene. Being prepared and (armed) would help. Don't let yourself get involved physically, for me at 60 that's not an option. Maintain distance and announce you are armed. If the victim looks like they are not going to survive the attack and the attacker will not stop, two rounds into the ground or close to the attacker will get their attention. Hold them for the police. If they threaten you, drop them. If you are in doubt about when to stop shooting, that would be when they quit moving!!
     
  17. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    Well, here's the thing, you may not be able to use lethal force to defend someone else but if you jump in and they attack you, then you are now defending yourself. And since the use of lethal force is justified in situations of self-defense, the tables are quickly turned. I for one wouldn't sit and watch someone else get the tar beat out of them. I would enter the fray with nothing less than a shotgun, order them to stop and when and if they turned on me I would start firing.
     
  18. WDB

    WDB New Member

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    You have to try and help and use reasonable force. Four years ago I was leaving a movie with a group of friends and there was a guy beating the heck out of a woman. I yelled at the guy to leave her alone, he told me to go fu&k myself and kept hitting her. I walked over and broke it up. He and I got into a little scrap, to my surprise the girl he had been beating was grabbing me and telling me to leave him alone. The police showed up and asked what was going on. The woman told the officer that her and her boyfriend was arguing and I came up and started hitting her boyfriend. The police interviewed the other people (who all just stood there and watched) and got the real story. Afterwards one of my friends who was there said "that's why I don't get involved in other peoples business". I told him I'd remember that if he ever gets jumped, I'll let him take care of his own business. Even though that woman didn't appreciate my stopping her boyfriend from beating her I'd do the same thing again. I think the only funny part of the whole thing was when the officer came to speak with me I told him I was armed and had a premit to carry. The guy I had a scuffle with went pale when I handed the officer my pistol. They arrested the guy for public intox, he was pissed, he wanted to know why I was getting arrested for hitting him, the officer told him he was lucky I didn't shoot him. When the officer handed my pistol back he thanked me for telling him I was armed right away and for not pulling my firearm to break up the fight.
     
  19. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    Women like that have more problems than I can count on one hand. If I jumped into a fight to help her and she got mad at me then I would have just backed off and said, "Fine, then you can take care of him!" I get tired if trying to help people who don't even have enough respect for themselves to help themselves. They want soemone else to jump in and help them with something but they wont help themselves, I ain't got time for that kind of crap.
     
  20. chopkick

    chopkick New Member

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    It's really a no brainer. Multiple attackers with weapons (tire irons) = justifiable use of deadly force to prevent great bodily harm or death to another.