Would this statistic be accurate

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by AdAstra2009, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. AdAstra2009

    AdAstra2009 New Member

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    I'm in a social issues class and I'm researching for when we get on the gun control topic.

    Would it be correct to say that there are 75 times more Defensive Gun Uses than Gun deaths?

    I am gathering this information by taking 20,000 gun deaths a year from 2005 allegededly collected from the CDC
    WikiAnswers - How many people were killed by guns in America last year

    (It would be good if I could get the official CDC site and not a wiki)

    and the 1.5 million Defensive Gun Uses a year from a study by the US Justice Department.

    so I took 1,500,000 and divided it by 20,000 and I got 75 so would it be accurate to say there are 75 times more defensive gun uses a year than gun deaths or is there some kind of flaw that I am overlooking.
     
  2. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    There are significantly more Offensive gun crimes than there are Defensive gun uses. Crime works that way.
    I guess what we need to know is.... how are you attempting to portray gun owners, because what you have is a math problem. You have an end which you are trying to justify, right?
     

  3. AdAstra2009

    AdAstra2009 New Member

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    Darn I thought I had the perfect statistic to use as an edge.

    I'm trying to work it in favor of guns, I'm pro-gun.
     
  4. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The 1.5 million number sounds like one promoted by the NRA. That includes situations that a gun was displayed but not fired. I am not sure how they accrued that data, but it sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    So, yes. I believe that would be an accurate stat.

    The CDC compiles data on "reported" gun deaths. They also include suicides, accidents, homicides, justified self defense killings and LE shootings that result in a death. They portray the number in such a fashion that leads many to associate 20,000 deaths with 20,000 MURDERS. That could not be further from the truth. I seriously doubt there are 20,000 murders in the US over any 3-4 year period.
     
  5. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Huge flaw: gun deaths vs. defensive usages

    Subjects are not defined. You need to find gun deaths involved in offensive crime vs. gun deaths as result of defensive measures.

    While you are at it, check out gun deaths in offensive crime vs. non-gun assaults.
     
  6. AdAstra2009

    AdAstra2009 New Member

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    The 1.5 million was actually the one of the lower numbers I could find for Defensive Gun Uses per year, it's also by the US Justice Department so it's more official.
    I also came across DGU #'s of 2.5 million and 2 million from a study by Gary Kleck from the Florida State University in 1993.
    I don't see a problem with a DGU being just a weapon displayed, I mean I think that would work better(maybe look) in that no-one was hurt.

    To Skullcrusher I may check out those suggestions though I don't know how easy it will be to find statistics that specific.

    My primary goal is to find out if guns save more people or kill more people. (hopefully save more)
     
  7. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    Right. You can only incorporate the use of a firearm after you have identified the players' motives.
     
  8. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Others have pretty much covered it.

    Compare uses of legally-owned firearms: defensive (and that doesn't necessarily require a shot being fired) versus offensive (domestic dispute, suicide, etc.). I think you'll find the percentage of offensive uses of legally-owned firearms is far, far smaller than 25%!

    Then compare uses of illegally-owned firearms. There are probably no stats on defensive use of illegally-owned firearms, but there's no shortage of data on offensive uses.

    Finally, compare the stats: legal/offensive v. illegal/offensive.
     
  9. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    I don't think there's a way to work in the deterrent factor, i.e., a criminal sees an NRA sign in a yard, and avoids burglarizing that house.

    Often, the presence of a firearm is a deterrent, and perhaps a crime that would have been committed is scrubbed and moved along for easier pickings.
     
  10. AdAstra2009

    AdAstra2009 New Member

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    Thanks for the response.
    My teacher for social issues says we are going over gun violence and we are going to be shown a video on children gun deaths.

    So far I have my original statistic and I'm also going to use the following.

    * more children are killed every year by Adult sized beds(or was it being crushed between the mattress and the headboard)
    * maybe something to do with automobiles
    * children statistic includes 15-20 year old gang-bangers

    And maybe that one that says doctors cause 9,000 times more deaths then gun violence in the US but I may hold off because they may think I'm crazy or something.

    Anyone have any other good arguments I can use. Also is the 2% of crime committed using "Assault Weapons" accurate because I heard FOX use 6%
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  11. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    I can't think of a family I grew near which didn't have unfettered access to sporting rifles and shotguns, and we were expected to be proficient in their use because we were shooting to eat. At 14, it was expected that you'd be a duck-slaying machine! As for deer hunting, at 14 you were a driver, which used to p*ss me off, but it was what it was.
    I did have the good fortune to grow up in a house with a Colt 1911 and a S&W Model 10, but talking Dad into buying throw-away ammo was pretty tough.
     
  12. WDB

    WDB New Member

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    I went to the CDC page and searched firearm related deaths, there is a loi if info to dig through but I expect you can check your facts. I read one post from 2002 that stated that 56% of firearm related deaths were suicide. I also checked out the US Justice Department and couldn't find the study. But there site was fairly difficult to seach and find any reasonable information.

    So while your math works numbers can be twisted in many ways and you should be well aware of how the data you use is gathered and what is included in them. An example, using the numbers suppilied I might claim that 1 in every 75 defensive use of a firarm results in a death. and that is no where close to correct expecially if LEO use is included as officers often take a bad guy at gun point (defensive use of a fire arm) and rarely fire there firearm. In some cases there are several officers have that have the bad guy at gun point so there are several counts of a person using a firearm in defense.

    Please be truly careful with the numbers and understand in great detail the numbers you use.
     
  13. AdAstra2009

    AdAstra2009 New Member

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    I'll make sure to include the details that those deaths involve kills by LEO's and that over 50% are suicides, i'll also mention that a large amount of DGU's may never reported due to the fact that they may see no need to report a crime that didn't happen.

    This is a major resource I am using.

    GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense?
     
  14. BPond

    BPond New Member

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    Don't forget to mention that cities and states with the strictest gun control laws invariably have higher crime rates.