working my way up.

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing Forum' started by sharpshooter1997, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. sharpshooter1997

    sharpshooter1997 New Member

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    I had a Guy give me a Rossi circuit judge and told me what he wanted. I said OK give me a couple weeks.
    (I'm 15 and this is the second build I have done)

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  2. sharpshooter1997

    sharpshooter1997 New Member

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    Oh if you don't know, this Is what it looked like when he gave it to me.

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  3. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    What you did is a very big NO NO without a $200 tax stamp. You now have a pistol with a forward grip,and that's against the law without a tax stamp for the forward grip.
    If you leave the buttstock attached to it,then it's legal,but it's illegal with a pistol grip on the rear.
     
  4. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Even with the 18+ inch barrel?
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    and if you charged for it and without an FFL to gunsmith is a big no-no as well IIRC.
     
  6. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    I don't think barrel length has anything to do with it. I was looking into the laws on this subject a while back.I was wanting to put a forward grip on my PLR-16 pistol,and after figuring out it took a tax stamp,I didn't figure it was worth $200 for adding on that accessory.
     
  7. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    Since all he did was a cosmetic change,he shouldn't need a FFL,but if he's actually working on the firearm,he probably needs to have one.
     
  8. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    not 100% sure, but what i understood was that anything done to a firearm withing your possession for profit was considered gunsmithing and required an FFL to conduct such business.

    that's reason anytime i ever worked on anyone's firearms, i never charged for the work. mostly refinishing stocks or mounting scopes and sighting them in for friends and family.
     
  9. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Franklin armory sells an AR-15 with an 11.5" barrel and vertical foregrip. They claim it is not a pistol, rifle, or AOW. If they can do it, you can do it.
    http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_XO-26.html
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  10. sharpshooter1997

    sharpshooter1997 New Member

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    So what your saying is if I have a Remington 870 and I want to buy a gouge tammer postal grip for 20$ I need a 200$ tax stamp?
     
  11. sharpshooter1997

    sharpshooter1997 New Member

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    *Houge tamer pistol grip
     
  12. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Hint, if you have a firearm for more than 24 hours, it should accounted for in books.

    If you are making money (even as a hobby), you are engaged in business and require a tax id and FFL.
     
  13. atrbertothy

    atrbertothy New Member

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    That sir is a pistol there is no stock, and if it had a stock then it would be a sbr and would need the tax stamp.
     
  14. atrbertothy

    atrbertothy New Member

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    Shotguns require a 18" barrel plus over length of 26" if you get the houge tamer pistol grip and the over all length is grater then 26" you are legal. You should be ok with the 18" barrel.
     
  15. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    it looks great... however i am not sure what it woukld be considered legally. IHMO, you should be careful and research your local state, and federal laws
     
  16. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    Someone ask a lawyer. I would, but do not live in the states. Never seen a gun like that though. Interesting.
     
  17. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    No, shotguns fall under different rules than firearms with rifled barrels.

    If you don't know the ATF rules, and don't have a gunsmithing liscense, you really need to be cautious about what you create.

    A Handgun with a forward pistol grip and no stock is classified as an AOW (Any other Weapon). It requires ATF application, and registration and a tax stamp ($25 for AOW if I remember correctly).

    A shotgun with a pistol grip needs to meet overall length requirements to be classified as a shotgun still, otherewise it would be a short barreled shotgun (SBS) which requires ATF application, $200 tax stamp, etc.

    to further complicate things, each state could be different in what they allow with regard to ownership of SBS, SBR, AOW, full auto and supressed class firearms.

    I would undo what you did to the firearm, and remove pictures. If you charged any money, give it back, because the government wants tax money for FFL related work for a profit.

    This is not meant to be means spirited, but to protect you and others from future trouble.

    If you like doing this kind of work, get in touch with the BATFE and see what it takes to get a liscense and keep things above board.
     
  18. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would call it a pistol as well. But a vertical foregrip on a pistol creates a AOW. I was just surprised the BATFE ruled that this particular firearm was not considered an AOW. That ruling set a precedence.
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    but we have to look at what he started with and then ended up with. with a buttstock on the Circuit Judge and a 18.5" barrel that is most likely rifled. now the Judge pistol gets around the legalities by rifling the barrel and classifing it as a postol rather than a shotgun. the Judge with such a short barrel, if it wasn't rifled it would be classified as a SBS. this is from Rossi's website as to the classification of the Circuit Judge.

    WARNING
    1. The Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge is sold in North America only as a rifle.
    2. No smooth bore versions of the Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge are imported or sold in North America.
    3. Conversion of the Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge Rifle to a Smooth Bore Shotgun is impossible because there are
    no parts available in the United States.
    4. Due to the complexity of the firearm any conversion from its original configuration would have to be under the
    supervision of a highly competent gunsmith.
    5. Any changes made to any Rossi Firearm by anyone other than BrazTech LC, voids the warranty, and may prove
    to be dangerous including serious injury or death.
    6. Please note that the Rossi 28 Gauge Shotgun is sold as a smooth bore shotgun only. It may be illegal to sell in
    various states or jurisdictions since it is a revolving cylinder shotgun – and is not rifled as is the Rossi .45/.410
    Rifle.
     
  20. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Sharpshooter - this is known as a case of "Just because you can, maybe you shouldn't."