Wondering if I could get some advice...

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by HeavensGateOutfitter, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. HeavensGateOutfitter

    HeavensGateOutfitter New Member

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    Hey all, first time posting on this sight, I've been a lurker for a little while. I just recently moved to Idaho to start an outfitting business, and I need a new rifle. I really like the "tactical" looking rifles, and I love the quick follow-up shots a semi-auto offers. Im looking into the R-25 from remington, in either 7mm 08 or .308. Which caliber do you think would perform better on long-range elk? Also, if you can think of a tactical looking semi-auto in a higher caliber in the same price range (1500-$2000) let me know! Thanks in advance, it's great to be a part of the community. Nick Savage--
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Nick, the folks here are more warm and welcome after they know a bit about you. The Introductions Section is a great way to break this barrier.

    As for your question, I need to get a grasp on "your" version of "long range elk".

    Personally, I would not take most semi auto weapons on a meat hunt. You are after meat, not a target.

    There is a HUGE difference between hunting men ( tactical/sniper grade ) and hunting animals ( hunter grade ) weapons.

    JD
     

  3. HeavensGateOutfitter

    HeavensGateOutfitter New Member

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    Long range elk for me is gonna be 5 to 800 yards. We do some hunts with the "Best of the West" guys, and they lay 'em out up around 1000. Im just not that into shooting that far away I guess. I own alot of Bolt Actions (30.06, 300win, 270 wby) but I want a semi-auto tactical to add to my collection for a number of reasons: I think they look AMAZING, and they aggravate the rest of society :D So yea, long range is 5-800 yards. Do you think a .308 or a 7mm 08 could do that? Or am I gonna need to look into something bigger? Thanks.
     
  4. HeavensGateOutfitter

    HeavensGateOutfitter New Member

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    Sorry if I sound dumb when it comes to guns. Archery is my forte' ;)
     
  5. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Me I don't think there is a caliber in a AR-10 style rifle that can be used on elk at 800 yards. For that kind of shot my min would be at least a 300 win mag or 300wsm. I am not one for magnums and think that many people compensate for a lack of shooting ability with cartridges that say magnum. While the 308 is OK at 1000 yard shooting games it is not a good 1000 yard game shooter. Neither is it good for elk at 500 yards.

    7mm STW (Shooting Times Westerner) would also be a great choice as this is what it was developed for. Even a nice 300 RUM would work really well.

    If you are not that experienced with a rifle why are you wanting to take 500 yards shots on game? That to me is not hunting that is being to lazy to put in the time and effort at stalking the game and making sure you can make a good clean kill. I have to question if you have ever been close to an elk? These aren't your 110# white tail that can be killed with a 22lr. Elk are big and tough.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  6. Poink88

    Poink88 New Member

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    Sorry for me this doesn't compute. :confused:
     
  7. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    Nick I'm also an archery kind of guy but firearms are also a passion of mine.

    You can't beat a bolt rifle for performance and reliability IMO. I shoot both the 7mm-08 and the .308 and have to vote for the .308 for heavy hided animals at longer distances and 800 yards is a poke for most firearms and shooters. Just because a cartridge can reach out and touch something does not mean that any given shooter can do the same. This takes lots of practice and concentration.

    As stated by Tango, there are far superior cartridges for that task.

    For what it's worth, if I were to purchase a .308 in a semi auto today and had $1500.00 to spend I'd go with the FNH. I just love that rifle.
     
  8. 270 win

    270 win New Member

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    Personally i would never go with a semi-auto for long range hunting. Unless its like a barret 50 cal. I would go with the 7mm stw. The 308 just doesnt pack enough punch at those ranges, and if you reload with a semi-auto, you cant make a hot round or you'll blow up your rifle.
     
  9. HeavensGateOutfitter

    HeavensGateOutfitter New Member

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    Im not sorry at all ;) I own alot of guns, but I competitive shoot archery and used to work in a bow-shop ;)
     
  10. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    Must of fried his hard drive last night.
     
  11. BillM

    BillM Active Member Supporter

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  12. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    Bill, that Edge is a pretty impressive rifle to say the least and the .338 would definitely do the job long range but I think you may need an extra mule to pack that thing around at 14 pounds.
     
  13. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper New Member

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    I'd say bigger. Talk to the BOTWest guys if you know them. IIRC the smallest I've seen them use on elk that far is 7mmRemMag, perhaps 6.5-284. A friend of mine had a rifle built for long range elk after speaking with some of them at a sport show here in PA.
    He built a custom 7mm RemUltraMag with the barrel specifically set up to use high BC bullets in the 168-180gr range. He took a fine bull this year after much practice at just over 800yds with a single well placed shot using a 168gr Berger VLD.
    These 7mm 168-180gr offer some of the best Ballistic coefficients for long range work available. The problem you are going to have with the smaller 308family of cartridges such as the 7mm-08 is being able to drive such a heavy bullet to acceptable velocities and generating enough energy for reliable one shot kills on big game at those extreme ranges. This problem is compounded by using such a long bullet in a short action eats up valuable powder space.
    Shorten your maximum range to 350, maybe 400 yards and the 7mm-08 will probably perform admirably with perfectly placed rounds. Probably using Premium 140gr bullets to balance ballistics and retained energy out of a short action semi-auto(Ar-10, R-25)
    Insist on much longer ranges and you are going to have to step up to heavy, high BC bullets and long bolt actions such as 280Ackley Improved, 7mmRem Mag, 7mm STW, 7mm UltraMag or up to the Big .30's, etc-------------my .02
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  14. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion the only choice based on the caliber requirements would be the Browning BAR Safari. They come in 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, and 338 mag. There's no way I'd think about popping an elk @ 800 yards with a 308 in a AR 10 platform. It's debatable whether the BAR would be accurate enough to deliver @ 800 yards. To get best results you're going to have to stick with a bolt platform.
     
  15. HeavensGateOutfitter

    HeavensGateOutfitter New Member

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    Yes, I have been VERY close to elk before. I shot my first elk laying in it's bed at 65 yards :D It was a RUSH. I do have lots of expeirence with rifles in general, I just have 0 expierence with tactical rifles. Thank you very much for the opinions on the rifles, the 7mm STW looks like a great cartridge.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  16. HeavensGateOutfitter

    HeavensGateOutfitter New Member

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  17. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    Nick, with all do respect, I think you need to take other people's opinion a little more gracefully and more tactfully. Many of the ladies and gentlemen in this forum will offer there well educated and learned advice unless you come across as some kind of smart guy.
     
  18. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Bill - You have any idea how much those rifles go for? It's an interesting concept, but I am betting they are twice the price of a boltgun platform that would probably outshoot it.
     
  19. HeavensGateOutfitter

    HeavensGateOutfitter New Member

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    Thanks for the advice. Better? :)
     
  20. HeavensGateOutfitter

    HeavensGateOutfitter New Member

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    If it was up too me, i wouldn't mind never shooting anything over 100 yards again :D Alot can go wrong out there. Thanks for the advice, I think I will call the BOTW guys and see what they think. Im putting a Huskemaw on whatever I buy anyway, so I will have to talk to them at some point.