Wolves Impact

Discussion in 'Hunting Forum' started by markerdown, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. markerdown

    markerdown New Member

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    Interesting info on wolf kills and impact on big game. I guess it's all part of the natural world but this is an eye opener for me. It's not all discovery channel nature shows in the real world......Just remember this is from an elk save group and not a save wolf group.

    And folks always wonder why I always carry a sidearm when hunting ...........markerdown

    This is extremely graphic

    Slide Show
     
  2. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    It's that whole Mom Nature and the "survival of the fittest" that keeps checks and balances on nature. When man interferes with nature, nature's balances get all screwed-up.

    Predation is one of the mortality factors that keep wildlife healthy if left alone. Predation will ultimately keep the elk herd from more devastating factors such as disease, starvation, and accidental death due to human encounters. Normally predators are opportunistic because they prey upon the old and sick as they don't have to expend a lot of energy for a meal.

    Hunting is the only mortality factor that man can directly control. Hunting also takes-out the surplus population. Are we any better than the wolves?
     

  3. photopro

    photopro New Member

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    It is a dangerous supposition to dismiss deer decline as "nature's way" or some other glib over used expression. It would only be "nature's way" if all things were in balance and invariabley they aren't. Too often a situation is allowed to progress past obvious untill it bites you in the *** and by that time it is usually too late.
    We have a group of misguided individuals here in the UK who have proposed re-introducing wolves in the Scottish highlands. "Oh they will only thin out some of the excess Red Deer, they won't touch farm stock and young kids will be perfectly safe" - GET REAL - predators will take as many prey animals as they can, when they can. At least as human predators we can show discretion and observe close seasons.
    The prey animals in the slide sequence in the main were only very partially consumed showing the wolves did not need the extra meat, plus I suspect a number of the carcasses had been eaten further by other species not normally a threat to deer.
    Your problem needs sorting guys even if it is on only a local scale.

    photopro
     
  4. Walley

    Walley New Member

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    It gets to me that the ones who scream the loudest are those who fear predation by wolves on their livestock. What they fail to mention is that the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009 (H.R.146) was passed into law in March of this year under which those who do lose livestock to wolves can be compensated for their losses.

    Next we hear from those who claim that the deer, moose and elk populations in the areas that do have wolves are in a decline. Even when statistics are published saying the exact opposite they steadfastly stick by this theory.

    My one son has a ranch in Montana where every winter he ends up feeding, at his own expense, several hundred elk each winter. He has often told me that he wishes there were more wolves in his area because a good percentage of the elk he ends up feeding are old and infirm and what he feels that, as sportsman, he is obligated to do only prolongs their misery. He is not allowed to put them down.

    The way I see it those who insist on shooting wolves just want to kill for the thrill of killing. Anyone who would hunt and shoot an animal from a helicopter is not a true sportsman and is just a sadistic killer out for a thrill
     
  5. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    Photopro, I'm not trying to be glib, I'm just stating fact. Predation is only one mortality factor and the mortality factor I failed to mention was loss of habitat. Loss of habitat is probably the number one stress on all wildlife.

    All I said was that Mother Nature has a way of taking care of herself until humans intervene. We still need to balance predator and prey and that is where human intervention is often needed.

    Elk hunting in the western United States is big business and of course there are people crying wolf because they are losing revenue. I support all hunting as long as it is legal and hope someday I'll be able to take my first elk. But as a sportsmen, I support all wildlife because they all have a place here on God's earth.

    I have killed many animals and never has it been pretty but that just part of hunting. I never forget that I as human is one of the most ferocious predator on earth and hopefully I'll have a positive impact on nature.
     
  6. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    I never knew a wolf would rip a fetus out of an animal. Learn something new everyday.
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    here is the real problem. humans interjected themselves wrongly or rightly through over hunting for profit or fun and attempts were made to eradicate wolves from the wild way back when. now the issue is there is no balance on either wolves or elk. hippies interject on the sides of both with nothing but good intentions and feel-goodism screwing things up even worse than if nothing was done at all.

    what needs to occur is let actual naturalists who study the actual issues of wolves and elk and issue hunting permits and game limits on one or the other as needed to keep the populations of both in balance where the packs and herds are both healthy.

    but unfortunatly until there are no more liberals in power anywhere there will be no real study of the actual issues of elk herds and wolf packs. feel good hippies and trigger happy farmers will continue to mismanage and create situations that shouldnt really come to pass.
     
  8. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    I hate those hippie bastards.

    As you already know Jon, as sportsmen, here in Wisconsin, we have to control and police ourselves as we can not count on the DNR to do it for us.

    For those of you that don't know, Wisconsin has a healthy wolf population that is moving farther south every year. Along with the wolves, the coyotes are starting to raise hell with the whitetail population and yet, the DNR gives out massive amount of carcass tags every year. Our whitetail kill this year is down about 33% from last year and last year's whitetail kill was down from the previous year. I see a trend here.

    That is why as sportsmen we have to take the bull by the *** to insure future hunting opportunities for our children.

    Stupid hippies, I shake my privates at you. Was that shaking private thing in another thread?
     
  9. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    The coyotes are nuts down here in some areas. You want to balance animal life? LET US HUNT THEM!! Hunters want to hunt, if they hunt them to extinction what would we hunt? Hunters are conservationist in the truest form.
     
  10. markerdown

    markerdown New Member

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    Coyotes are just plain vermin! I had two going after one of my birddogs and they had no fear of me. But my 1911 put the fear of 45acp in them real quick! I shoot them on sight whenever I can .................markerdown
     
  11. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    I suggest all of thee above reading some great writings by Farley Mowatt. He was ostricized by the Canadian government for standing up for the wolves and then acclaimed for his book, "People of the Deer", by equating the health and welfare of the Inuit to the health and welfare of the caribou herds.

    Has there even been any reported true stories of wolves ever attacking man? I believe it is like the whole prosecution of a home owner shooting an intruder based on the ammo used.

    Predators are predators and game is game. A balance is needed, but seldom found.

    Walley, the compensation given to those who lose livestock is nowhere near the value of the livestock. Here in Ohio, they have stopped compensating farmers for losses due to coyotes, and there are no plans to further compensate. That bill may be fine for those in wolf country, but not for those who are in other predator country. I think you would like to see the cessaton of any compensation for loss of livestock since PETA is against raising livestock for food.
     
  12. photopro

    photopro New Member

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    Aparently he was called Kenton Carnegie.

    Wolf Attack

    photopro
     
  13. Bigcat_hunter

    Bigcat_hunter New Member

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    This Idaho(Sun Valley) wolf was eating too much livestalk.
     

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  14. Walley

    Walley New Member

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    We have a real problem with coyotes in this area and they are not protected by the DNR. You don’t need any kind of a license to hunt them. We plan to be out freezing our butts off after the pheasant season is over calling them in at night. Last winter we accounted for 23 of them and as a bonus collected twenty-five bucks a piece for their hides.
     
  15. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    yes, by a long shot. wolves will continue to predate the game herds, pets, farm animals etc until none are left. in today's world there are not vast stretches of wildernesswith untouched game herds where the balance of predators to prey is even. wolves can predate other things than wild game such as garbage dumps pets farm animals etc. this means that their numbers can and will increase to levels beyound what wild game can survive.

    humans are capable of regulating our own actions when hunting with proper regulation and hunting limits and seasons. wolves follow no such thing. so yes humans are better than wolves. in my opinon humans should just go ahead and make the wolf species an extinct one.
     
  16. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    Jon, man has already made many species extinct so why not one more. I truly feel bad for you that the wolves are interfering with your hunting experiences. Please remember that wolves are also God's creatures and they do serve a purpose even though it's not yours.
     
  17. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    I would not want to hunt or camp in an area with a large wolf population. However, i FULLY support the wolves in their anti-deer (& other ungulates) campaign, from afar. If i could airmail them some deer-scented milkbones, i would. I wouldn't mind at all if they repopulated the red wolf in MS, so long as they tossed them some deer on a regular basis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  18. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    orangello, being around wolves is far less dangerous than being around man especially when your the one holding the gun.

    Every time I here the wolves howl when I'm alone in the woods it brings a special feeling throughout my body and soul. It makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck and makes me more in tune with my surroundings. I get those primal feelings that are in my genetics.
     
  19. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Holy Crap JonM!!! :eek: Wolves play a very important part in the big picture of preditor/prey ecosystem of game herd populations and natural selection management, to guarantee the continuance of stronger, healthier and increased populations of game animals, for all to hunt.

    Damn, I am glad my wife did not see your response post, she would......oh hell, I do not even want to go there. :eek:


    Jack
     
  20. whirley

    whirley New Member

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    One of the universities here made a study of deer reproduction, and concluded that about 50% of the annual fawn births are eaten by coyotes in the first 6 weeks after birth.