Wolf Ammo?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by jackg, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. jackg

    jackg New Member

    221
    0
    0
    Please excuse the fact that I'm a "noob" and I'm curious about a lot of things.
    A few days ago I was at Dick's Sporting Goods and as usual i looked to see what ammo they had in stock, I was looking for .380 but it like finding a left handed knife sharpenerhttp://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
    Any way I recently bought a Kimber Pro Crimson Carry II and love to practice with it. I saw they had some "Wolf" .45 Auto 230 gr FMJ for $19.99 for a box of 50, so I bought a couple. But, when I got home I opened the box and saw the ugliest looking ammo I've seen. I looked at the box again and noticed it said "steel case". I've read some adverse comments about Wolf and I'm wondering if it will negatively effect my Kimber. The other thing I noticed, that I didn't like, was that it's made in Russia. Comments?
     
  2. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

    4,435
    28
    38
    I shoot Wolf ammo alot,some guns like it-some don't. It is decent practice ammo,but some extractors don't like the steel cases. Just clean your gun good after shooting any of the steel cased ammo,as they are coated and it will build up in your chamber after you shoot.
    As far as being from Russia,it's no big deal to me.If the U.S. mfgs would sell their ammo at the same prices,then I'd buy it if I could find any.

    I reload,so all my good ammo is loaded by myself.But for just plinking or practice I'll shoot anything I can find for a decent price.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    15
    38
    steel cased ammo can have problem in AR type weapons where the tolerances are close and the heat is high. the lacquer on the cases will aneal to the chamber causeing problems with failure on extrraction it will sometimes rip the heads of the cases off. thats primarly where wolf gets its bad rap.

    it is dirty it has varrying powered loads and it is cheap. the only postives are that it is cheap and it goes bang when you pull the trigger. in a .45 it should be ok as long as you take really good care of your chamber it is possible for the lacquer to build up in the cahmber over time if you dont clean it real well.
     
  4. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

    4,828
    0
    0
    Most of the pros, it's cheap, and cons, steel casing and extractor wear, have been answered. Biggest issue is that many ranges do not permit steel casings mostly due to the need to sort it from brass. I do not believe that steel casings can be reloaded so it is just trash to them.

    Personally, if I had a top of the line Kimber I wouldn't risk damaging it with cheap ammo to save a few bucks, JMHO.
     
  5. notdku

    notdku Administrator Staff Member

    6,288
    8
    38
    I go through 1000+ rounds of Wolf a year. Rarely have a problem with it.
     
  6. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

    21,833
    2
    0
    Wolf gets a bad rap. NO, it's not coated in lacquer, it is however protected with a polymer-coating. And no, it doesn't crud up your hot chambers (unless you are Class 3 wasting ammo, and then why would you shop for cheap?)

    Here's cane's take on eastern block ammo (and guns) Make them cheap and fast! The rifleman isn't going to wear it out, hell he's going to die before he needs to clean his weapon. Fast and cheap, don't gotta last! If they can make 20 AK's to our one AR so be it. If the rifleman wears out his AK all he needs to do is pick up one off his dead comrade!
    It is a misconception that steel-cased ammunition increases wear on the chamber or extractor of firearms. The steel used in cases is a mild steel. It is soft in comparison to the steel used in firearm components. The steel cases are coated with a polymer so no direct steel-to-steel contact is made.

    The disadvantages of using a steel case is that it is not as "elastic" as brass. This produces a less than ideal gas seal when fired. Steel cases are not reloadable. This is primarily due to the fact that the commies use a Berdan primer to discourage reloading of ammunition.

    I have fired over 2K of Wolf and Golden Bear steel ammo in both 223 and 7.62. I keep a clean weapon and have not had issue 1.

    I have had a problem with Wolf 30 carbine in my Ruger Blackhawk. Because of this issue I will not run my 1911s with anything but brass or brass/nickel. YMMV
     
  7. jackg

    jackg New Member

    221
    0
    0
    canebrake,
    Your last comment was exactly what I was looking for.A bout 3 weeks ago I bought my first 1911, a Kimber Pro Crimson Carry II. I think it would be a sin to put it at risk for any adverse action. Maybe I con use the full boxes as paperweights. I should have known when I saw the price.
    Thanks for sharing your insight.
    jackg
     
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    15
    38
    actually wolf ammo comes either way. polymer or lacquer. it depends on when it was made. there is a LOT of lacquered casings floating around. it isnt the steel that the cases are made of that cause damage its the deposits from the coating on the casings in the case of lacquered rounds which are still around. new wolf ammo does have the poly coating older uses lacquer. almost all other surplus steel casing uses lacquer. lacquer will deposit itself on in the chamber of a weapon mostly this occurs in AR's due to the tighter tolerances than the AK weapons.

    my point was that in a weapon like a .45 auto just more attention to cleaning is all that is required. i wouldnt run it in my ruger SR or my SP1 or my dpms M4.

    the problem you were having in your carbine pistol is because the cases in longer rifle caliber cases tend to anneal themselves to the chambers of most weapons. whether it is polymer coated or lacquer coated doesnt matter it has the same net result. steel cased ammo only works well in certain weapons and usually its shorter pistol ammo like 40 9m 45. cases that are longer or have tighter tolerences like 223 308 30carb will exhibit occasional issues with extraction and or case sticking.
     
  9. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

    5,360
    3
    38
    I use some Barnuel .223 in my AR. Shoots fine. Wolf is an odd company. Not all of it is made at the same plant. Wolf Gold is actually Prvi Partisan ammo, they just charge more.
     
  10. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
  11. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

    2,096
    1
    0
    Both of the coatings will build up in your AR chambers. Since the casing doesn't fire-form to the chamber.

    You will never experience a problem with stuck cases until you run brass cases after steel during a shooting session.

    Many people have called it dirty, junk, innacurate, etc.

    It is definately dirty for me, but I have gotten it down to 3/8 MOA @ 100 yards. So I'm a fan.
     
  12. slowryde45

    slowryde45 New Member

    1,198
    0
    0
    Potential Problems with Wolf Ammunition

    "Lacquer coating

    Wolf no longer manufactures ammunition with a lacquer coating on the cartridge casing due to issues concerning lacquer-coated steel cartridges becoming stuck in the chamber of a firearm after firing, with difficulty in ejecting the spent cartridge afterwards. This appears to be more of a problem with cartridges with narrowly tapering walls (e.g. .223 Remington) than those with rather steep case walls such as 7.62x39 mm cartridges or pistol ammunition. This also does not seem to pose much of a problem for Soviet or East Bloc designed weapons that tend to have looser chamber clearances than Western designed weapons.

    Tests have shown that steel-cased Wolf cases do not obturate sufficiently to form a good gas seal against the chamber when compared to brass-cased ammunition. As a result, when Wolf cartridges are fired, some of the combustion by-products are deposited between the case and the chamber, causing a build up of carbon that is well in excess of normal. Firing a brass case (that does expand fully) after using Wolf ammunition can result in the brass case being "glued" into the chamber by the carbon buildup. This issue has nothing to do with the lacquer coating vaporising or melting, as has mistakenly been suggested. The problem is one of carbon deposition, which creates the same end result i.e. a stuck cartridge that has jammed in the chamber. It is important to emphasise that Wolf ammunition is perfectly safe to use because it conforms to all SAAMI standards. However, it is recommended that firearms are thoroughly cleaned after using Wolf ammunition due to the increased rate of carbon build-up within the chamber. Most users are content to accept increased rates of gun cleaning in return for being able to purchase more ammunition per dollar. As mentioned in the previous paragraph, the looser chamber dimensions of Soviet designed weapons allow for more room during firing and extraction. Soviet or East Bloc weapons do not experience these problems.

    Note: all ammunition currently manufactured by Wolf has polymer-coated or brass cartridge cases and any obturation problems have been radically reduced.

    Steel cases

    Despite popular misconception, steel-cased ammunition does not increase wear on the chamber or extractor of firearms. This is because the steel used in cartridge cases is mild steel which is very soft in comparison to the type of steel used in firearm components. Also, steel cases are often given a thin coating of lacquer or polymer, so there is no direct steel-to-steel contact with the chamber. The only disadvantages to using steel cases is that steel is not as "elastic" as brass, and therefore does not create as efficient a gas seal when a round is fired, and the case is not reloadable."

    Slo