Winston Churchill fading into history

Discussion in 'History' started by downsouth, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    For me WC is one of the most noble leaders of the modern history. He willed the island nation to survive against tyranny. His speeches are epic in words and cadence. His politics were ruthless in effect but statesman like in delivery.

    Any other fans of the man ?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up2O8kvtRT4&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]
     
  2. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Heck yea!

    I have read most of his works, and I am a true fan. He is probably not someone you would have wanted for a neighbor, but he made a heck of a wartime leader. He was not a half bad author and historian either.

    The best part is he was half American. (something I enjoy reminding my Brit buddies)
     

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Known as an incredible public speaker- did you know that Sir Winston had a stammer?
     
  4. magnumman

    magnumman New Member

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    Thought you might enjoy this.

    image-3698064235.jpg
     
  5. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    Good one....
     
  6. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    No, I didn't
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Sorry- not a stammer- a lisp. Letter S- especially when word started AND ended in S, came out as SH instead of S. He crafted his speeches to avoid those words, and sometimes gave cute deliberate slurring of words- Narsees instead of Nazis.
     
  8. Rentacop

    Rentacop Active Member

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    Prof. Rufus Fears did a great lecture series on Churchill and it is available from The Teaching Company on CD .
    Churchill had his faults too. The series , "WWII in Color" on The Military Channel told about Churchill's signing of a secret agreement with Stalin to divide up control of postwar european countries ; Churchill called it " The Naugty Document " . Churchill also let Sir Arthur " Bomber " Harris take the blame for bombing German civilians ; yet Harris only did what Churchill told him to do . He should have stood behind Harris and Bomber Command .
     
  9. lfcshooter

    lfcshooter New Member

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    Real shame that the first thing obama did when he came into office was to send back the bust of WC from the oval office which had been there for decades
     
  10. zaitsev44

    zaitsev44 Active Member

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    image-1713615684.jpg

    But he was an amazing leader, and I respect him as one of the best in modern history.
     
  11. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Time for a little consiousness raising
    Not a fan of the Man:

    This doesnt fit with the cozy idealized history we get taught but its more accurate.:

    -As a young man he helped set up concentration camps for the families of the brave Boers .

    - Sacrificed his country to fulfill his lifelong ambition to destroy his brother people the Germans (for example long before Hitler took over he wrote books about how britain should bomb german civilains; was lobbying for war prior to WW1 AND 2 etc).

    - Responsible for a campaign of aerial genocide.

    - Likely had personal knowledge of the atrocities his friend Dr Benes planned and executed on his minorities after the war (Before Benes got back and after capitulation BBC Czech lanague asked the population to decorate the avenues with Germans as living torches and they did etc etc)

    His entire life he had been lobbying for war in Europe .
    WW2 was his lifelong ambition come true.

    The destruction of the British Emipre due to the war was predictable but he obviosuly didnt care because it allowed him to become a "historical figure"

    He even lobbied the Soviet Union as an ally which had just gotten done murdering 6 million ukrianians and millions of others. a soviet Unions whose crimes would dwarf the Holocaust or anything the axis ever did.

    No matter what the historical cheerleaders say; there was no need for WW2 which he co-engineered, if it hadnt happend Europe would be healthier and stronger and would still have a future.

    Maybe he wasnt the <most> evil man in charge in Europe but after Stalin and Hitler he was a close third.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  12. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    Wow !!!!!!
     
  13. Rentacop

    Rentacop Active Member

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    blueZ-
    I won't dignify what you said with a point by point rebuttal . Absolutely untrue . Enough said .
     
  14. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hijack the hagiography thread.

    Maybe I put it on a little thick ...(though all of it can be checked) .....but I think the point to remember is that many of those we "know" from history as heroes are sometimes villains or more often regular men acting and reacting to thier environment.

    As some we were taught are villains may have been heroes.

    What do you think will happen to the presidents legacy if he is successful with his "change"?

    In 60 years there will be people on forums talking about how he was the greatest president ever.

    Society has a tendence to glorify whoever won no matter what
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  15. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Churchill was a great leader!
    Wish we had one!

    03
     

    Attached Files:

  16. shouldazagged

    shouldazagged New Member

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    I slogged through all six volumes of his huge history of WWII years ago. His History Of The English-Speaking Peoples was much easier going and more readable than the endless exchanges of cables with Roosevelt, but the WWII work was worth the effort.

    He was also a pretty good landscape painter--Eisenhower painted fairly well too--a self-taught and not very good bricklayer, and a famous wit.

    The Aussies tend to think harshly of him, since it was his brilliant plan that sent huge numbers of Australian troops to slaughter at Gallipoli in 1915 when he was First Lord of the Admiralty. But it's likely true that he did more than anyone else to bring Britain through WWII. He damn sure deserved better than the unceremonious way he was dumped when the war ended.
     
  17. Rentacop

    Rentacop Active Member

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    blueZ : I've listened to Professor Fears' entire audio lecture series on Churchill . I've read books such as Intrepid by Stevenson , The Wizard War by R.V. Jones , The Double-Cross System In WWII by Masterman, The Ultra Secret by Fred Winterbotham, Beyond Top Secret Ultra by Ewen Montagu and many others that had something to do with Churchill . I've watched Cities At War, The World At War and many other documentaries and series presentations with relevance to these matters .
    In short, if you say we can check it out, I have checked it out .
    I stand by what I said. Your allegations are false .
     
  18. Rentacop

    Rentacop Active Member

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    Gallipoli was Churchill's idea but was approved and ordered by others and was not his responsibility . I recall that errors by commanders on the scene contributed to the debacle .
    Side note : Churchill wanted to make another try at running the dardenelles but the navy didn't want to lose any more ships. Churchill later noted that these old ships were to be scrapped in a few years anyway and he felt they should have risked them
     
  19. lfcshooter

    lfcshooter New Member

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    Churchill was never viewed as a great peace time leader the war came about at an opportune time for him so he could display his true strengths
     
  20. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    One fact remains true of all wars, and will FOREVER remain so:

    HISTORY BOOKS ARE ALWAYS WRITTEN BY THE WINNING SIDE