Winchester Varmint ammo for HD?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by DropZone889, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. DropZone889

    DropZone889 New Member

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    I hope this is not as stupid of a question but I had bought a box of WINCHESTER VARMINT X 223REM 40GR POLY TIP 20/10 ammo at Wallyworld kinda by spur of the moment ( that was the only 5.56/.223 instock in my store in months) and here in FL I haven't done any hunting with my AR, soo for the PR I paid $17.99 for a box of 20, I didn't want to waste at the range and thought how well would these fare against a HD situation, they show coyote's on the box not a dumb ass breaking into my home and I want to make sure they'll do the job??? Help a new shooter out without breaking my balls!! Lol

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  2. sandog

    sandog Member

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    I'd think that if using an AR for HD duty, over penetration would be a concern if you have other family members in the house and/or neighbors close by. One of the frangible rounds would be best, and almost as good, if not as good, would be a very explosive bullet out of a varmint round like the one you have. If you are going to use them for HD, you should get another box so you can test some for functioning, and maybe shoot into a couple pieces of drywall or whatever material the walls in your home consist of, to see how these 40 grainers break up. In an ideal defense situation, we are going to hit the intruder center of mass, but with shooting in poor light, target moving around, stress and excitement, things aren't always ideal, and some rounds could miss.
     

  3. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    First things first one box isn't gonna cut it. You need to run a couple hundred rounds through your ar first to see if it runs flawlessly. On top of that you need to make sure that ammo will penetrate enough at the distances you plan to use it at. Varmint rounds may be safer inside the house but they may not stop your intended target s well.
     
  4. DropZone889

    DropZone889 New Member

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    Thanks guys, AgentTiki that's what I was wondering if they would not be as effective in a HD situation, I kinda thought that they most likely wouldn't be the best.

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  5. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    Any round that will stop a bad guy will penetrate through sheetrock, most rounds will not penetrate through the exterior walls. Find a SD round that meets the FBI penetration standards. Those standards are in place to provide penetration is adequate to kill BG without dangerous over penetration. Varmint rounds do not meet FBI standards. They open up too quickly and do not penetrate deep enough.
     
  6. sandog

    sandog Member

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    Seems any round that will go through an intruder will penetrate other things as well. If you live by yourself with no neighbors around then over peneration is not an issue. If you can get frangible rounds or loads that meet FBI standards, great. If it's all you can get, a varmint load that blows a fist size hole in a coyote or woodchuck is going to do major damage to a bad guy, all of the energy and hydrostatic shock will be expended on the target and probably not exit at all, and not cause injury to your family or the family living next door. I would go with a heavier varmint bullet like a 60 gr. Hornady V-Max. They would penetrate deeper and still fragment rapidly. The 40 gr. load that DropZone mentioned is meant for very small varmints, not 160 lb. addicts trying to break in.
     
  7. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that those 40 grain frangibles aren't suitable. But they really are intended for thin skinned varmints. A denim and leather jackets can really change terminal ballistics. In the end, every choice entails tradeoffs. While I certainly would never want to be on the receiving end of one, there are more devastating rounds.

    Also what would happen when you do want to shoot through a door or wall? Like if a bad buy were hiding behind something? Penetration isn't necessarily a bad thing.
     
  8. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    for someone breaking into your house, I assume every shot then is under 15 yds? Probably 10 or less?

    look a .223/5.56 projectile is travelling 2900-3100 feet per second at that distance. Any kind of bullet is going to destroy what it hits. The energy on this round out of the muzzle is insane

    If you are talking about 50 yards plus, well that wouldn't be a HD situation, that would be a pursuit situation.
     
  9. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    The problem with an ar for home defence is the muzzle blast. Sure the intruder will be dead. You and your children will never hear again.
     
  10. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    I've been around small arms fire in enclosed areas including M4s with no hearing protection. I can still hear.
     
  11. dwmiller

    dwmiller Well-Known Member

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    That's what they make silencers for. :)

    As a former door kicker in Iraq I can say the 62 grain military load provides plenty of stopping power in close range. It only starts to get iffy at 300+ yards. It also provides overpenetration of the target ànd sometimes the wall behind said badguy. I have seen cinderblock wall complete pass through, these were NOT green tip penetrators.

    For my home/my family frangibles are the ammo of choice. 69 grain frangible self defense rounds. My backup (44mag redhawk) is for deep penetration situations.
    ... ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  12. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    I think we are all assuming he has a 14.5 or longer........I've asked this questions myself, but mine is a 7.5" which makes m193 or m855 a real pissed off 22lr. I opted for bonded soft points which, when fired into a large watermelon at 25 yards, is/was devastating. I ended up choosing readily available Fusion 62 grain, which is almost exactly identical to Gold Dot 64gr bonded soft points. I really like how they punch .45" holes in things. When I was shooting watermelons a while back, M855 and M193 was punching holes in the melons, but the Fusions vaporized those suckers! :eek: Talk about hydrostatic shock! I looked at frangibles but was kind of put off by reports of lack of penetration when going through denim or leather with frangibles. :(
     
  13. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    I agree. Any commercial load with the fusion, 60gr nosler partition, bonded bear claw, gold dot or even barnes triple shock will work great. Federal premium federal fusion or Barnes VOR-TX are all usually easy to find. Just cycle some rounds through the rifle before you buy a buttload of it to make sure it cycles and groups consistently. Use varmint rounds for varmints.

    Half my magazines are M855 or M193 for engaging targets taking cover. The other half are office issue Federal LE bonded hollow points. I'm zeroed for the office ammo but the milspec stuff does fine under 100 yards. Just can't use it at work unless I run completely dry and there's no other ammo available. (Which will never happen.) The federal rounds are great through auto glass better than both M193 or M855 but I like having options if I need them.

    In any case varmint rounds are for varmints. SD rounds are for people.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013