Winchester Ranger 30-30

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by buckmarlin, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. buckmarlin

    buckmarlin New Member

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    I have a problem with my ranger. I can not figure out why it does not shoot with any consistency. The gun shoots all over the paper, sometimes it doesn't hit paper even after it hits within of an inch of bulls eye. I had the scope sent off and there was nothing wrong with it. It patterned fine on a gun at the repair center. I took it off and just tried shooting with iron sights. now it shoots level but it shoots way right, consistently. First time i shot it it missed paper right, second shot I moved the sight to the left of bulls eye it hit paper to right, 10 inches off. I took a third shot and moved the sight to edge of paper to leaft and the shot moved even further to the left. Where i aim and where i hit is a bout 10" difference. Can anyone tell me what the heck is wrong with my gun.
     
  2. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    It sounds like a combination of issues. How's the changer on the end of the barrel look? Are your scope mounts tight?
     

  3. crazycharlie2

    crazycharlie2 New Member

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    What he said or ammo problems. Factory ammo in the 150 to170gr. range should work well.
    Are you shooting freehand or off a rest? Sandbag rest works quite well never use a hard surface.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  4. buckmarlin

    buckmarlin New Member

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    after the scope was sent to have it checked it was professionally assembled back on the gun, it was checked and everything was tight, but still shot all over the paper.

    I am shooting remington corelockts.

    thanks for the followup
     
  5. buckmarlin

    buckmarlin New Member

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    i have shot the gun all the ways you have asked.
     
  6. KG7IL

    KG7IL Active Member

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    I think that the problem is in your method.

    First, you should have more than one shot before you make a decision to adjust sights. Seldom do we shoot as accurately as we would like to believe. Mutliple shots tend to 'average' this error to something that you can work with. One shot is not sufficient.

    Second, try 25 yards or less if possible to get poa near poi. 10" at 100 yd's can miss the paper, at 25 yard's the moa's bring you to about 2.5".

    Third, Ensure you understand your sight adjustment: Screw Rotation equates to Direction of impact and MOA. If you cannot find good information, spend some 'thinking' time and document it. It's easy to get confused if you shoot, adjust, shoot, adjust. Know what your screw movement will do.

    Fourth. As noted above, keep some notes on poa, poi (save your targets and identify them to your notebook notes) keep notes on what direction and how much you turned your sights.

    You will usually find that the gross error is the result of human factor.


    Fifth: Once you think your are on, then you can try different ammo to improve your groups.
     
  7. buckmarlin

    buckmarlin New Member

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    everything you have suggested has been done. thanks.
     
  8. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Chamfer. Sorry spell check fail
     
  9. KG7IL

    KG7IL Active Member

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    Then either your problem is solved, or you have notes and targets that you can share with us.

    Are you still 10" at 25 yards?
     
  10. buckmarlin

    buckmarlin New Member

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    so, how do you fix left right being off with iron sites. how do i correct it being off to the right? how do i make that adjustment to the iron sight?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  11. buckmarlin

    buckmarlin New Member

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    how do i know if my chamfer is damaged? what am i looking for? thanks
     
  12. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    might want to take it to a competent gunsmith and have it checked out. have him check the muzzle crown and see if the barrel is fouled with lead or copper. sometime barrel fouling will cause accuracy problems as will a dinged crown at the muzzle.
     
  13. KG7IL

    KG7IL Active Member

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    You may need to post a picture of YOUR rear site and the associated adjustment screws. Knowing how YOUR rear site works is key.

    The general rule is the rear sight is moved in the SAME direction you wish to move the point of impact (1)

    So if you aim center (POA) and the bullet impacts (POI) to the left (9-o'clock), then you want to move the POI to the right, hence move the rear sight to the right.

    Another way to internalize the process is to think of the gun being held firm while adjusting. When you swing the rear sight to the right, you are moving the sight picture over to the point of impact.

    You may have a dovetailed leaf, with a notched incline to provide elevation to the aperature.

    With this type, you will have to rotate the leave to the right or left as needed. This is sometime difficult.​

    Other types have adjustment screws.
    With a properly fitting screwdriver, carefully turn the WINDAGE screw TWO turns to the LEFT (counter clockwise) and observe the direction the rear site aperature moves.
    After noting this, return the sight to it's original position by TWO turns to the RIGHT. Now you should know which way to turn your screw to move your rear sight to the RIGHT or LEFT. (remember the thinking part and taking notes)

    Elevation screw is usually on the 'top' and the Windage screw on the 'side' of the sight assembly



    As previously mentioned, I like to start at 25 yards.I like to use a target with clearly marked 1" grids.
    Images:

    Grid Target (2)
    [​IMG]
    ---------------------------------------------
    Notched Incline on Leaf
    [​IMG]

    GENERIC adjustable site (showing windage screw on side)
    [​IMG]




    Footnotes:
    (1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_sight#Adjusting_for_accuracy
    (2) http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  14. cottontop

    cottontop Guest

    With all due respect, the Win. Ranger 30-30 is a piece of junk. Get rid of it and get a decent bolt action in a modern caliber, i.e.; .243, 260, 7mm-08, or .308, and many others if you consider long actions also. You can get a good bolt action like the Marlin x7 series for about the same price as your Winchester. In the used gun market, there are 100's of choices.
    cottontop
     
  15. buckmarlin

    buckmarlin New Member

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    Still doesn't explain why it's all over the paper with a scope and all over the paper with iron sights.

    It has been suggested the chamfer may be damaged? If it is, would that explain this? or is there something else i can check?

    Thank You. This gun was my uncles deer hunting gun. It was given to me after he passed away. It's important to me to get it fixed so i can hand it down to my son. It may be a piece of junk, but it's a piece of junk loaded with memories from a lifetime with my uncle.
     
  16. crazycharlie2

    crazycharlie2 New Member

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    Take it to a gunsmith or a competent friend.
    You inherited it and the cost of getting it where you want it should not be a factor.
    You do not know what your Uncle may have done to it. (no disrespect to him intended) It could have been dropped or subjected to some other incident that is causing the problem.
     
  17. cottontop

    cottontop Guest

    What does the bore look like? It sounds like the bullets are not being stabilized. The bore could be shot out (unlikely) or it could be fouled due to lack of proper cleaning, or it could be permanently damaged due to pitting, improper cleaning, etc. In my youth, I had an old M94 in .30-30 that was shooting exactly like yours is. The bore looked like the inside of a stove pipe. The damage was permanent and cleaning made no difference. If yours is damaged in the same way, it cannot be fixed. If so, hang it on the wall in a special place along with a picture of your uncle and his memory will be relived everyday.
    cottontop
     
  18. buckmarlin

    buckmarlin New Member

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    Pics of 30 30 bore

    Here are two pics of a problem on the bore. This is what I found. I took everything, all the scope and mounts and everything off to see this. Is the gun done? or can it be repaired? It's a chunck out the metal. have no idea how long it was there because the scope and scope mounts hid this. i have had he gun for 6 years and have never able to shoot it with any consistency. I could shoot it three times and it would look like it was on. i could shoot it again after shooting other guns and it may or may not hit paper. Then shoot it again with no adjustments and it may hit back on. scope or iron sights it was the same result.

    Thanks for all the feedback.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  19. KG7IL

    KG7IL Active Member

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    It's kinda hard to see from the picture. Those pics are pretty good, but not what would be needed from this keyboard.

    I believe what we are looking at, is the recess on the chamber face that allows for the ejector hook to properly seat around/over the rim of your 30-30 cartridge.

    Where I am having difficulty is determining if the recess is damaged, scored, peened, or mal-shaped at this time.

    Now is the time to make a decision:

    A. If you want to make this a shooter, and you suspect damage GO TO THE GUNSMITH.

    B: If you want to make this a non-shooting keepsake, Stop now!
    B1. Identify the known problem on a small card and attach it with string to an inconspicuous place for future reference*

    C. IF you want to make it a shooter, you can restart this at step A.
     
  20. Linny

    Linny New Member

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    What do the bullet holes in your targets look like? Are they round, oval, rectangular?

    From you explanation of inaccuracy I'd guess that old barrell is sending it's projectiles unstable.


    I'd check headspace and carefully inspect the barrell.

    I too love lever guns and still have my very first centerfire purchased- a model 94.. These things by design are at the back of the class for accuracy but really shine sexy..