Winchester Model 94 Fix

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by VERDICTBRACKETS, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. VERDICTBRACKETS

    VERDICTBRACKETS New Member

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    Okay...

    If you have a 94, and are trying to shoot past 100 with it for deer or whatever, I have a few things I have learned the hard way.

    I am not talking about iron sights, and very few people scope the 94 because of the hassle it takes to do it. But I like the challenge of the old gun while others are knocking them down with 700's and such. My guns are both side mounted with simple Nikon stuff. Mainly for my eyes as I am 49 and I just can't see both end of the iron sights AND the dang target at my age. I have 20-5 vision long range, but the iron sights are a no go for me anymore. The other benefit of a scope here in South GA is the fact that I rarely have the time to morning hunt, but I can't wait to knock off work and sit in a stand when the season is in. Most of the time, by Georgia rules, we can shoot 30 minutes past the legal sunset, but I cant see crap most days 10 minutes after sunset. My point is, by getting a side mount scope, I gather a little more light, and I can actually see stuff EVEN PAST legal shooting time. I'm not saying I shoot it past legal, but it puts my poor gun and me back into the game... Enough on that.

    The problems and fixes all happened with side mount scopes model 94's, though the scope or mount has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. The scopes are sound, the mounts are sounder...

    Number one...trigger pull. I have heard people call it the lawyer trigger and so on, but the fact is, the 94 has a nasty trigger pull. It's sloppy and unpredictable, and what makes it worse, it's that every pull feels different all the time...after you pulled so hard that your shot was off...lol.

    Okay. You can seriously improve this trigger pull on that gun with some sandpaper and a little bit of "do it yourself" ability. It's fun too. I got my pull from a random 9-7 lbs to a pretty predictable 5 in less than 2 hours.

    Look up on the internet the various YouTube videos and such concerning the trigger mechanism on the 94. You will find that there are several diagrams
    and different assemblies out there...mostly based on the year of manufacture, and a few folks actually tell you how to tune it up. I got all excited, so I pulled my trigger assembly apart, and it was, well...not in ANY of the diagrams. I have a 1972 model, just so yall know. Well, either way, if you are mechanical at all, then you will see where the rubber (or friction) hits the road on these mechanisms. Just go slow. Sand a little, put it back together, and test it. Do it again and again until you like the pull.

    I had shot deer with this gun and sighted it in each year, but was never better than a 3.75 inch grouping on a rest at 100 yds. After this, I was easily at 2 inches. Now...my gun may have had a really hard pull, but if you are fighting that battle BEFORE you actually fire, its a big relief to have the gun fire when you "think the word FIRE", instead of fighting with it after the thought.

    Second problem:

    After a few years of shooting, I learned that by properly bracing my gun in my deer stand (I made mine out of wood, so I can brace it against a 2x4), I was able to hold a long range target much steadier than just resting it. I was actually locking the forestock against the wood and putting pressure on it. Well, it worked great for 1 year, but the second year, I kept missing shots. I went back to the bench, and my range is at 136 yds, and I was dead on...easy 2 inch groupings...but on a REST. Back to the deer stand and can't hit crap. Well, I did hit one buck at 180, but the bullet went through his front and back legs on opposite sides. (He ran 100 yards with 2 legs, and yes we found him and we processed him that night.) The point being...my shot was 2 feet low at that range. Either way...back to the bench rest. Yep, DEAD on at 136. Hornady FTX 165, everything is perfect. (yes, I know how to compensate for distance using my Nikon...lol.) Come to find out, even a 94 has binding parts on the barrel. Look it up. VERY FEW folks have info on this on the net that I found. (Mainly because everyone see's it as a 100 yard iron sight gun...) But, float the fore stock first. It takes time, but when it's humid (south GA here, it certainly can be) it can put forces on your barrel. next, get some sand paper and make sure the tube bracket that hold the end of the magazine to the barrel is not tight...you should be able to wiggle the tube easily and have some play in there. Same goes with the stock...it should not be "fixed" to anything...but loose and slightly floppy.

    Long story, but the end result is simple. The barrel is easily influenced by forces you may apply to the magazine tube or the stock...so just loosen the binds and friction between those parts and the barrel.

    Most deer I shoot these days with that gun are at 175-200. They all fall down if I did it right. There's nothing like seeing the flash, hearing the bang, and then actually hearing the "Thwmp" as the bullet hits the deer...It's a special treat for us "slow heavy bullet" shooters.

    Another note...If you are hunting with a scoped 30-30, the Hornady FTX is about 13 inches higher at 300 yds than a your normal ammo...150/170...it dont matter. The round does not drop as fast because of less drag. I have mine sighted for 150, and so between 100-200, I really do not do anything but put the cross hairs on them. After 200, you better start doing some math fast because again, it's just a 94, and she is falling fast.

    Thanks for your time and I hope this helps someone not learn it the hard way.

    Wade

    The mounts are: Quickset on the Nikon 3x9x40mm Scope. Williams on the Nikon 2x7x32 mm Scope. The third gun is a model 94 saddle ring 25-35 that was my great grandfathers made in 1920 or something. They bought it to shoot fish off of a 15 foot high dock...imagine that.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
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  2. Minorcan

    Minorcan Member

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    Thanks for posting, always good to hear from other enthusiasts. I agree with you about the triggers. I used a Drexel and Fitz. I like peep sights on mine. Made a big improvement for me. If I need a better sight I go to a different gun.
     

  3. VERDICTBRACKETS

    VERDICTBRACKETS New Member

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    Model 94 Scope Mounts...

    Okay,

    I posted above about the 94 and I have 3 of them. 2 with scopes, but the third is a 25-35 caliber made in 1916...Saddle Ring Carbine. It's a family heirloom, so I don't want to mess it up. It has been years since I could find ammo for the thing without having to back order it from midway usa and then, pay hazmat and all that. So, since my eyes are older, I decided to just hang it up.

    Well, I really don't like guns that can't be functional. I want to shoot them. I want to scope the thing so that I can put it into the deer hunt gun pool, but I don't want to cut a hole in it to mount a Williams or a KWIK-SITE Scope (both side mounted) on the gun. My other 94's have these mounts, and I have no issues, except for the KWIK-SITE gives no room for eye relief...which makes it very interesting to shoot....At least if your looking through some glass that gathers light...(longer scopes with bigger objective lenses)

    Well, I ran across a guy who makes what looks like the solution to my problem.

    My question is, has anyone used this setup before?

    It's called Pearson's No-drill Tactical Rail?

    I have looked at the diagrams and everything, but it allows me to not cut holes in the old gun, and get the job done...

    Anyone?

    Anyone?

    If you have one of these and they hold zero, please give me some feedback.

    Thanks a ton.

    Wade of VERDICT BRACKETS
     
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  4. VERDICTBRACKETS

    VERDICTBRACKETS New Member

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    Bigger Gun

    I have done the Vortex/Monarch 7 Remington 700 and other modern stuff. I don't know whats wrong with me, but I like the challenge of making old school stuff step up to the plate. It's not always possible, but I also like the challenge of Ballistics with the 30-30. As many deer as I see at 300, I am not ready to take that shot. 200, sure, I will take it if everything is good...lighting, deer posture and my gut. It's just the challenge of it I guess. We have full bore stuff hanging on the wall that I could hunt with, but it makes it, well, a point and shoot game when your longest shot is going to be 350-400 where I live.

    One of my proudest moments was a few days back when my son, who is in the Army with all the marksman stuff hanging on his shirt, said...Dad, I think I am going to go back to the 30-30 this season. It's just too easy with my 700 and M-14. (They both are like, decked out with all the cool stuff.)

    I told him, it is CERTAINLY more challenging.

    If it was a terrorist we were hunting...yeah, I'm taking the M-14 or my AR. It's a deer and I know I can get them with technology, so I like to hone my hold over skills and do a tad of math before I shoot. Just makes it fun to me.

    I can't get the love of old school hardware out of my shooting.

    Wade of VERDICT BRACKETS
     
  5. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    i can agree with that!

    none of my lever actions have scopes, and never will. i have plenty of rifles that have scopes though.

    but did you ever see John Wayne toting a lever action with a scope? nope!:p

    that's great to hear your son decided on using the 30-30 this year! awesome!:D
     
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  6. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    I hate to say it, but you aren't John Wayne! Plus, most of the rifles he shot were Model 73's & 92's.
     
  7. hiwall

    hiwall Active Member

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    I have no first hand knowledge of this mount. It appears to use the take-down plug screw hole on the left side of the action and the rear sight dovetail. This gives you only a somewhat weak 2-point mount. But maybe strong enough for a light recoiling gun like this. The take-down plug screw that it uses were made in two completely different sizes on model 94's. That older '94 of yours will have the much smaller size. Make sure the mount comes with the correct screw for your gun before you order the mount.
     
  8. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    but i have seen quite a few John Wayne movies! :p
     
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  9. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Active Member

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    As I remember in Big Jake he needed a shotgun due his failing eyesight.
    His sone makes a 300 yard shot using a scope and Big Jake (John Wayne) says I cant even see that far.
     
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  10. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I spent a lot of money on high power rifles and scopes when all I really needed was my old Marlin 336T in 35 Remington. My longest shot on an animal was 70 yards. I bow hunted for a while and that really teaches you to hunt.
     
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  11. Ibmikey

    Ibmikey Member

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    I cannot fanthom drilling or cutting up a SRC and taking a heirloom and turning it into junk. It does not matter to me with my Winchester’s, many of them SRC’s as I will never sell one...but you are taking a $12 to 1500. Rifle and rendering it a $500 one. I understand you have found a miracle no drill way to mount the scope but I ask Why? You already have scoped hunting rifles so use them and leave the 25-35 for the grand kids to ooh and awe over. That would even save you that hazmat fee.
    I may be out of line as it is your rifle. But I hate to see history being destroyed unnecessarily, plus I have a great love of 73, 92 and 94. Winchester SRC’s,
     
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  12. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    i have seen too many guns modified over the years, essentially destroying their history and value. and it makes me cringe when i hear someone modified an old gun, just to make it more like a modern rifle, when it would have easier and possibly cheaper to just buy a newer rifle to start with and leave the old one original.
     
  13. LYPNELSON

    LYPNELSON New Member

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    im in the same boat !!