Winchester 1907 .351 slr

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by YoungGunWill, May 15, 2010.

  1. YoungGunWill

    YoungGunWill New Member

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    I've been on gunbroker lately and ive found a rifle called the Winchester 1907 SLR. I really like it design, and apparently the .351 is a hellofa round:D; but i did my homework and found out serveral things
    1. although the .351 is a round full of knock down power, its kinda hard to find ammo
    2. Few companys still manufacture the .351 (winchester stopped making it in about 1957) but its any where from $33-$49 depending on who produces it for a box of 20 rounds
    3. On gunbroker a well used (such as hairline of repaired cracks in its stock, light pitting, idiot marks, ect.) 1907 will go from 300-600 dollars

    if you have handled, own, or even shot this rifle it is worth it:confused:
     
  2. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    I have handled them, but never fired one. I liked it. The store I worked in in the '80's had ammo in stock. I remember that it was Winchester and not old. It was a current catalog item.

    If you buy one you will want to reload for it. Fo sho.

    Have you looked into a Rem Mod 8 or 81? Cool old semi autos and they can be had in .300Savage, which is both a great round and still available.
     

  3. freefall

    freefall New Member

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    Handled one in the mid 70s, thought about buying it, wasn't expensive, but ammo was an issue at that time. Bought a mini 14 instead. Did like that little Winchester tho. Nice little unit.
     
  4. YoungGunWill

    YoungGunWill New Member

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    Yea, Ive shot a mini 14 at a friends house. I already had ideas to start reloading my own ammo and if I buy a '07 then its a for sure. thanks for your opoinons but im still stuck on the fence...=S
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, have shot one. As far as "knock down power"- the only thing that REALLY has knock down power is getting hit by a Mack truck. The .351 (and its earlier vesion, .35 SL, the .32 SL and its big brother, .401 SL) have been around a long time.

    The .351 was popular with police and prison guards. It fires a 180 gr bullet, with about 1400 ft lbs of energy. More than the M1 Carbine at 945 ft lbs, but a LOT less than something like .308, at 2600 ft lbs. But for 100 years ago, in a snappy little semi auto, this was pretty impressive stuff. Then. Today it is considered marginal for deer hunting.

    Ammo is still available from specialty companies, but pricy. Should be an easy reload.

    BTW- they also made a Thompson SMG in this caliber. THAT would have been interesting!
     
  6. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I do believe it was one of the rifles used to ambush Bonny and Clyde. They were also popular with French aircraft observers in WW1. I have 2 friends that have them. One uses his .401SL for hunting. Impressive rifles!
     
  7. YoungGunWill

    YoungGunWill New Member

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    Thank guys, Ive found the cheapest ammo so far:
    351 Winchester Self Loading Obsolete Ammunition
    I wouldnt want that round in the thompson since the blish locking system had problems with rifle shells, also the resing model 50 tried the .351 but eventually went to the 45acp. Im seeing lower asking prices so Happy Birthday to me ,literally! :D ammo clip is selling those 10 round mags for a reasonable price. still like to hear from any owners or shooters of the 1907:cool:
     
  8. crossfire

    crossfire New Member

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    When the .351SL is called "marginal" for deer, they are comparing it to the likes of the .35 Remington or .308 or such. Actually the rifle has almost identical power to a .357 Magnum lever-action...180gr @ 1850 fps...hardly a "marginal" deer harvester inside 100 yards. Ammo is limited and expensive and bullet variety is non-existent. Even if you handload, you are pretty much stuck to reproducing factory loads because it's a delayed blow-back action.
    The case is essentially a .38 Super Auto lengthened to 1.38" and can be made from .357 Maximum brass. These rifles were very popular among both law enforcement and the criminal element prior to WW2 (some say more popular than the Thompson) and a full auto version was available.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  9. Levallois

    Levallois New Member

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    Glad to see this website. I've got two of these rifles - one is being turned into a 1930s Lebman replica 1907 as we speak (barrel comp and thompson forearm).

    I'm hooked and need to reload so this site is a great find for me.

    I'd like to address how popular these were in the "old days." There is a guy on the www, "351 winchester" is his moniker, that could do better than I but here goes.

    When I was looking for info. about the 1907, it seemed like everything I read had something about how both lawmen and law-breakers used the rifle before WWII but with few details. So just how popular was the 1907? The following is what I have see thus far about who used this rifle for good or evil in the 1930s:

    Dillinger gang - 2 found at the Congress Hotel and 1 in JD's car when they arrested him in Tucson
    - Eddie Green - member of the gang - found a 1907 in his apartment after a shootout in St. Paul
    - Little Bohemia Lodge - a 1907 was left behind when the gang scattered during the shootout
    - Homer van Meter - member of the gang - the 1907 was his favorite - apparently with a Thompson-like forearm and Cutts compensator along with at least a 10-round mag

    Baby Face Nelson - used one to kill two G-men when he was mortally wounded in 1934 - apparently there is mounting evidence that Baby Face's Thompson jammed and he then picked up a Lebman-modified 1907 to kill the two Gmen on the night he was mortally wounded.

    Russell Gibson - member of Karpis/Barker gang killed by a 1907 used by Doc White. At least one of the six .351 rounds fired punched through his bullet proof vest.

    Alvin Karpis - arrested by G-man named Hurt who was carring a 1907

    Alva Hunt/Hugh Gant gang - had a 1907 when they were captured in Florida in 1938

    Bonnie and Clyde left a 1907 behind after a shootout (I'm still working on the details of this one). Also Clyde apparently gave Ray Hamilton two 1907s as parting gifts when they split up.

    Harvey Bailey - member of Machine Gun Kelly's gang - captured holding 1907 while asleep on a porch in Texas.

    Fred Burke - supposedly responsible for St Valentine's Day Massacre and Al Capone associate - a 1907 was found in his gun cache when police raided his bungalow in 1929. These guns were though to have been used in the massacre! So it's possible a 1907 was used in the most infamous mass murder during the gangster era!!

    Fred (and Ma) Barker might have been shot with one - Doc White had his 351 at the shootout.

    The good guys liked them too with members of the following organizations:

    Texas Rangers - George Chapman carried one
    Border Patrol - Charles Askins carried one
    FBI - Walter Walsh and Doc White each carried one



    The 1907 was at least as popular as the TSMG, so why don't we here about these guns today? Also, by just about every account out there, a 1907 was NOT present at the ambush of Bonnie and Clyde.

    As several people have put it, this was the original urban carbine.

    John
     
  10. Levallois

    Levallois New Member

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    Photos of my 1907s:

    [​IMG]

    Artsy-fartsy photo of the Lebman with other 1930s accoutrements:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Cool info John. Welcome aboard.

    I've always been fascinated with these. Might need to pick one up one of these days.

    Hop on over to our "Introductions" and tell us about yourself. We are a curious bunch.

    Can you post some pics of your 1907's?
     
  12. Levallois

    Levallois New Member

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    My two - standard 1907 with deluxe wood on top and Lebman repro on bottom.

    [​IMG]


    Artsy ode to the 1930s:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Outstanding! I had two spare magazines for one back in the 80's, but ended up trading them away at a gun show because I never bought the rifle. One long, one short. What are the capacities? Looks like you have a bunch of mags. Are they easy to find now?
     
  14. Levallois

    Levallois New Member

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    Thanks! The mags are available but they are spendy. I have 6 of the 10-rounders in the second photo. These were factory made by Winchester and are rare running $125-200 each with the 5-rounders that are by far more common running $50-80. There were apparently also 15-rounders made by after market companies in the 1930s but I've never seen one.
     
  15. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    I think I sold both of mine for $60. But they were given to me.

    I gotta think the springs in those rifles are shot, can you get new replacement springs for them?
     
  16. Levallois

    Levallois New Member

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    Of the 3 that I've owned, the springs were fine. A good thing since I don't think there are any spring replacements out there.
     
  17. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Measure the outside dimensions of the springs and check with Wolff to see what they have that might be compatible. Brownells also has "gunsmith springs" in various sizes.

    How do your rifles shoot? What kind of groups?
     
  18. Levallois

    Levallois New Member

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    That's not a bad idea about looking for general springs. The rifles are more accurate than I am out to 50 yards. A fun carbine to shoot but ammo is a problem even if you reload as the bullets are hard to find.
     
  19. XxWINxX94

    XxWINxX94 New Member

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    Own and have shot a Winchester model 07 in 351. While these guns are interesting, they are unrealistic shooters. Ammuntion is rarely avaliable and when it is you will pay a pretty penny. Packs some punch and is a solid semi-auto, but unless you reload, or are willing to pay alot for ammo, it isn't really a shooter.
     
  20. Levallois

    Levallois New Member

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    You have got to want to shoot this one bad. However, when I think of the history of this model and how important it was to the likes of John Dillinger, Homer Van Meter, Baby Face Nelson, Charles Askins, etc., then I know it's worth the trouble. Other than Thompson and BAR what other long gun was as indicative of the violence of the 1930s? And so much cheaper . . . . . .