WHY the anti OC argument?

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by trip286, May 6, 2013.

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  1. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    The argument that your gun will be snatched from it's holster and used against you, and/or that you'll be the first one targeted by a bad guy in the event of an active shooter/armed robbery situation?

    I bring this up because I've argued against the point many times, and invited everyone I've argued with to "show me the money", yet, to date, no one has.

    And so, I dedicate this thread, to IRREFUTABLE PROOF that "OC will get you killed."

    I always say, "I'm sure it's happened... but when?", and no one has ever answered. So, I extend this invitation to ALL OF YOU, please, "show me the money". When has OC gotten anyone killed in this manner?

    Here are the rules:
    1. Armed security and cops? They don't count. This is an argument pro/con on the subject of the "AVERAGE" LAC Open Carrying a handgun.
    2. Guns stolen from a home and later used in a burglary resulting in injury or death? Don't count. Again, this is about me, or Manta, or Axxe55, or WOC, TWW, or absolutely any other regular "Joe" or "Jolene" going about their daily lives with a handgun on their hip, it's NOT about home break-ins. Break ins can happen to anyone, whether you OC or CC.
    3. Just in case 1 and 2 weren't clear enough, or the intro, there's this: I want to see EVIDENCE. At this point, I'd even be surprised to see unsubstantiated claims, that if you OC, you're at a significant disadvantage and that your "gun will be snatched from it's holster and used against you or others", or that, "you will be shot first in an active shooter situation".

    Now, let me be clear, I'm not trying to say that everyone should OC. If you feel you have a distinct tactical advantage by CCing (I know I feel that way myself), that's your call. I am solely looking for opponents to the matter to back up their claims with real life evidence of some sort.

    Oh, and drop the hypothetical conjecture. We've all heard the argument, I've even outlined them here. Don't say "It will" or "it can" without any evidence. That's why I started this thread, because I'm sick and tired of everyone regurgitating the same old bull **** with nothing to back it up. Even I agree that it can happen. I just want to know, "when has it happened?". Because the anti OCers are really adamant that "the streets will run red with blood", yet have not offered any support for that argument, and I can't find any myself.

    Ready? Set? GO!!!
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  2. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

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    Some people prefer open carry; others do not. I have no problem with the outcome of such a decision. However, for me, personally, I am a private man. So it is characteristic of me then to carry concealed so as not to attract attention to me at all. But don't get me wrong. I am not against open carry. I'd rather walk beneath the radar. :)
     

  3. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    And there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with that, and I fully support your right to make that decision.

    I often question the motives of many people who OC. I personally would LOVE to beat the hell out of someone OCing with a video camera, screaming in a high pitched, whiny voice, "It's my right!!". Those people do nothing for our cause of preserving our 2A rights. But those like me, who will stroll through the local hardware store, or go to walmart, or McDonald's, with their kid? Just carrying on with life, and not making a spectacle of themselves? Yeah.... that's just living life.

    Alas, the last I heard, assault and battery is illegal. Sure would be nice to beat the stupid out of a lot of people though.
     
  4. davva360

    davva360 New Member

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    I have no problem with someone open carrying a pistol if they chose to and its legal where they live.

    I do have a bit of an issue with the people that open carry AR's just to create attention for themselves. Even if it is your right it doesn't do us any good.

    I have commented on many YouTube videos of open carriers in California warning them their actions were giving the political class an excuse to stop open carry.
     
  5. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Yep yep, I fully agree. Those who do it for attention are total turds and aren't helping at all. This march that's being planned on Washington? I have nothing good to say about it, and I'm dreading the event.

    But a lot of people have different reasons for doing anything they do. I lace my shoes and boots, left over right, because it's what I was taught in the Marines and it looks nice, neat, and professional. Some hop right over left. Some go left over right for the left, and right over left for the right. See what I'm getting at? I OC because if you've lived in Louisiana less than 15 contiguous years, it's an extra $150 bucks, on top of the approximate $150 that is the going rate for the class, prints, photos, and licensing fees. This is regardless of the fact that I held a CC permit in Mississippi before I moved here, and I'm a veteran (I personally think vets should be excused from the $100 class, but it'll never happen because the criteria covers legal implications too)

    But, this is straying off topic.
     
  6. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

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    This is why I live in the country... I can carry my SKS down the street and nobody even looks twice.. :)
     
  7. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    No arguement from me, i CC but its only because i dont like attention.

    I do like having the option to OC if i choose too
     
  8. Squawk

    Squawk New Member

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    I support the right to OC. I may not agree with what one decides to OC, but I support the right to do so.
     
  9. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    I like having the option of OC available. If one wishes to OC, that's their choice. I would ask that they not be a confrontational ***** about it. Aside from that, enjoy.
    I prefer to conceal, but there have been those lazy moments when it was easier to not care whether anyone saw it.
     
  10. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I rarely get any attention. I've had a handful of comments, like I said, along the lines of "nice gun", and that's been it. Most people here in my area don't notice, or don't care. I know this is different elsewhere though. In some places, if you even mention that you own a gun, and it could even be your great-great grandpappy's broken down old starter pistol, someone would call CPS and have your kids snatched. It's a pathetic world we're living in.
     
  11. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

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    Must be an ugly gun. "joking"
    Most look several time at my rifle. They say things like. Nice looking rifle. And where ya going hunting. Some say, lets go around back and shoot it.
     
  12. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

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    one of the men suddenly grabbed Estiller’s .45-caliber pistol, which was tucked in the merchant’s waist, and shot him with it


    newsinfo.inquirer.net/398435/ice-dealer-shot-dead-in-quezon-city-with-his-own-gun
     
  13. johnr1943

    johnr1943 New Member

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    OC attracts attention, add fuel to the "banners fire", gives the decidedly left tilted press open season to ridicule firearms, and it just makes for smelly PR. Rights, liberty, and license are not the same. OC proves or accomplishes what?
     
  14. -06

    -06 New Member

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    Have OC'd for many years and no problems. I do cover it in most public areas but when not have often gotten positive comments about it. Amazing how many say something like--everyone needs to carry/etc.
     
  15. dango

    dango Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The cause would the same issue of not needing guns in the first place.! These people hid behind locked doors , have a false hope in the system and will use any and all methods to impose their ignorance upon us..!

    The people who push for this the most are the very people's that live under the protection of the so called (PROFESSIONALS)..!

    I've been into firearms for some 44 years , so don't insult me , I know how to safely and professionally handle any fire arm I also know how to drive a car and tie my own shoes..! Thank you....!

    Don't under estimate the human race , just the one's in charge....!
     
  16. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    That is very, very, interesting, and I would be very interested in a follow up on it. It did happen in the Philippines though. Not exactly pertinent to the discussion of OC that I had in mind, meaning here in the states. However, I'll let this stand as the only case so far. The only case... and from the Philippines... until we hear of more, and I'm sure we will, because even I, an OC supporter, has to admit that it has to have happened before for it to be such a bandied about argument against it.

    That is your opinion, and I respect your right to have it, and agree with much of it. As to what it accomplishes? I don't know, maybe it just provides a legal way to carry a firearm for those who don't have the disposable income at the moment to buy their way into the CC permit club, such as in my specific case.

    But none of that was even the point. Your argument is valid, and as I said, I respect and agree with much of it. To some, OC is the only available option.

    But if you go back to my opening post, you'll see, I'm not trying to start an argument "pro or anti", or convince anyone that one method is superior to the other, and by reading the rest of it, you'll see that I'm not in favor of those attempting to create a spectacle.

    I'm simply looking for evidence of these fabled sharpeyed criminals who specifically target Open Carriers. So far, we've found one in the Philippines. Can you find any more?
     
  17. Steel_Talon

    Steel_Talon New Member

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    Arizona has always been an open carry State long before adopting CC permit, and now current non required CC "P" for conceal. Open carry to me and many others I know is no big deal. As for myself I tend to carry concealed. My older brother OC's each and everyday and has never had any issues.
     
  18. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok Some things are common sense and don't need evidence to back it up. Its common sense not to drink drain cleaner . If special forces carry out a mission to clear a house who would they shoot first the ones they see are armed. If police are confronted with two individuals one with a visible firearm who would the shoot first. If you were in a situation that two individuals were coming at you one you could see had a firearm who would you shoot first. I know some of the examples are against your rules we will have to agree to disagree on this one, people can carry what ever way they want in my opinion its a no brainier if you have the choice conceal carry. People have a different opinions that's life.
     
  19. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    You can say that all you want, but if people drank drain cleaner and nothing happened, then there works need to be some kind of evidence that it's bad for you.

    Example: Coca Cola had cocaine in it for years, and was used to treat headaches, until people started taking a hard look at it and discovered that, "holy ****! Crack kills!"

    You know what, when I get back to a keyboard and off my phone I'm gonna blow so many damn holes in this post it's gonna look like the backdrop behind Gecko45's unscathed targets.

    Standby.

    Okay, I'm back.

    Drano. No great exercise in common sense. It's covered in warning labels, and is comprised of mostly strong acids. It'll burn your tongue and nose.

    And the military has a tendency of killing armed combatants in acts if war. It's kinda their job.

    If police are confronted by two individuals, and one has a gun, they should maybe shoot the one committing a crime, IF the justifications for deadly force are followed. I don't know how they do it where you are, but cops here aren't allowed to simply open fire on unsuspecting people for carrying a gun where it's legal. Sorry.

    As to your last example: "if someone is trying to kill you with a gun, it world be prudent to protect yourself with your own gun" ~ Dalai Llama, paraphrased.

    I'll also point out that NONE of your examples has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with lawful open carry.

    ANYTHING.

    Do you want to keep it up, or are you enjoying me making you look a fool as much as I am?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  20. 25-5

    25-5 New Member

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    I do as I please. I don't give a $hit what anybody else does. We are all responsible for our own actions.
    That POS in the white house has got us divided enough.
     
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