Why the .243 Winchester?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by cottontop, Dec 18, 2011.

  1. cottontop

    cottontop Guest

    I think it's a shame that the .243 has caught on with extreme popularity while the 6mm Remington is almost unheard of these days. The old story that all of the big guru gun writers told is probably the reason for the death of the 6mm. If you remember, they said that the original .244 Remington with its 1 in 12 rifling twist would not stabilize the 100 gr. spitizer. The .243 Win. came out at about the same time w/ a 1 in 9 twist and thus sales for the 243 excelerated while the 6mm failed in sales. I'm not so sure if all of this is true as I have seen many .244's shoot 100gr. bullets dead on. I think the reason was that the .244 was brought out in the butt ugly Rem. model 722 while the .243 Win. was made in the very pretty model 70, and that was the main reason for the demise of the .244.

    So, after all of this, I personally wished that the .6mm had stayed (I know it is still available, but it is now mostly a handloading proposition) and trying to find a 6mm Rem. rifle is almost impossible. The reason? The longer case neck ie a plus, and the case offers a little more powder capasity than the .243. Other than that, they are almost identical ballistic wise, but I just prefer the 6mm Rem.
    cottontop
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    21,442
    547
    113
    Same deal with .220 Swift, and .22-250. Both good calibers, one was swooned over by the writers, the other left to languish.
     

  3. cottontop

    cottontop Guest

    You are correct c3, though the .220 Swift was a little more of a barrel burner, but, loaded down a couple of hundred feet per second (and it was still fast) it did not burn out barrels any more that the .22-250. The gun writers killed it. Too bad.
    We could probably name a few more this has happened to. The .348 and the.358 come to mind.
    cottontop
     
  4. Marlinman

    Marlinman New Member

    11,010
    0
    0
    .222 rem and 223 are another similar deal.

    God didnt make all men equal colonel sam colt did
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    had one of the major gunmakers offered the 6mm in a bolt action with the proper twist ratio barrel, we might be saying the reverse of the 243! makes a person wonder how a company decides what guns and calibers to market and for what reasons. the 220 swift was plagued by the powders of it's time and now with better powder selection, it can be very fast and accurate cartridge that doesn't erode barrels like the older ones did. but the 22-250 has way too much commercial success now, so very few companies even chamber rifles in it anymore. i have had several 220 swifts and would like to add another one in the future, and i may have to resort to the custom rifle route in order to have one. i have even looked at gun shows and from time to time look at the gun stores and pawnshops to try and find one. they just don't seem to be very many out there anymore.
     
  6. Marlinman

    Marlinman New Member

    11,010
    0
    0
    T/c encore has a 220 swift barrel

    God didnt make all men equal colonel sam colt did
     
  7. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    T/C makes a barrel in just about every caliber! it would be a shorter list of the ones they don't make, rather than the ones they do make. what i'm after is another ruger M77, one of the older ones in 220 swift.
     
  8. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

    8,409
    1
    0
    The end of your post provides part of the answer to popularity, in

    general terms. What do guns stores, pawn shops and gun shows

    support and carry?

    Many manufacturers look to what's numerically popular in the market

    before making an offering of their own; IMHO, the reason the venerable

    30.06 has done so well for so long. Certain calibers go the way of the

    Buffalo simply because they never manage to generate a popular base

    with manufacturers, either.
     
  9. gunnut07

    gunnut07 New Member

    944
    0
    0
    The death of the 6mm Remington was a combo of factors


    These things and I am sure more all equal a dead cartridge.

    Here is a scan from Steves Pages about the 244/ 6mm Rem. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd6remington.jpg

    It didn't help that some rifles could shoot 244 and 6mm ammo and other rifles could only use 6mm ammo and what not. There was and still is a lot of confusion about the cartridge.

    A 243 believe it or not can be a bit of a barrel burner. So the 244/6mm rem is going to do that even more because of the increased case size.

    There was new life breathed into the 244 case by an article about a guy who built a 22-6mm rem wildcat. You get at MOST 1k rounds out of it before the throat is scorched and the barrel has to be replaced.
     
  10. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    i keep looking at gunbroker and gunsamerica to see what the availability is of the 220 swift, there are never very many for sale at any time. and the prices are outrageous. many of the winchester M70's are $1500 and up and some approaching $4000 plus! even the ruger M77's aren't cheap either. for $1500-2000, i could build a really nice rifle.
     
  11. skeniger2002

    skeniger2002 New Member

    140
    0
    0
    Yea your not gonna find many under a grand these days. I would stay away from used ones to to cuz 220 swifts are known for wearing barrels out
     
  12. trex1310

    trex1310 New Member

    288
    0
    0
    Personally I like the .243 and I like the 6mm Remington as well. I
    just bought a Ruger #1 in 6mm. The problem is there isn't 2 cents
    difference in the two calibers especially if you reload.
     
  13. cottontop

    cottontop Guest

    I believe that some calibers have gained a tremendous following and seems like they will never die (i.e. the 30-06, the .308, the .223; and to a lesser extent but they still hang in there, i.e. the 7 mm Mauser, the 8 mm Mauser, and the 6.5 x 55 Swedish) is because they were originally, and some still are military cartridges.
    cottontop
     
  14. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

    1,733
    0
    0
    It makes me sad that the .25-06 seems to be dying also,it's more or less a .243 magnum but losing popularity fast.
     
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    i don't see the 25-06 dying out, as all the major gun makers are offering them. even if it does, i've got dies, and cases, then i have ammo. i won't ever give up my 25-06. still a very versatile round.
     
  16. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

    1,733
    0
    0
    Yeah,It may never die out but .25-06 is kind of in the same class as let's say,the .444 Marlin,there's enough guns out there already and several still being made so they will keep making ammo for it but at 1/10th the choices to choose from vs .243 or .45/70.
     
  17. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

    3,303
    47
    48
    all over the place

    .243Winchester I understand, 6mm Rem I undersatnd, .220 Swift and .224 rem? if your going that far how about mentioning the Winchester dog in the fight.......... the .225 Winchester
    .225 Winchester - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I had a Winchester model 70 in caliber .225 Winchester for a few years, a wildcat of the .220 swift that came out slightly after Remington introduced the .22-250, not many these .225 Win chamberd rifles around, can make brass from .220 swift brass, It was a hassle so I traded it off for a Rem 700ADL in .17Rem but had issues with performance, finally bought a Rem Sportsman 78 in .223Rem and was much more satisfied with what I had.
    You should mention the
    The 6.5x55 Swede
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5-284_Norma
    You forgot the 6x.257 Roberts and the 6.5x.257 Roberts as well as the .257 Roberts parent by necking the 7mm mauser, and the .260 Rem (6.5-08)
    .30-06 Springfield Wildcat Cartridges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    .280 Remington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  18. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    yes, the 225 winchester was doomed from the start, and that's a shame, because it had some very good ballistics for a varmint round. but the 22-250 already had been around, so when they decided to replace the 220 swift with the 225 win. it was already going against the odds.

    the 6.5x55 is another good caliber and after shooting one last summer, i have added it to my to find list. very accurate round and fun to shoot. but it seems that rifles chambered for this one are getting fewer and fewer.
     
  19. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

    8,409
    1
    0
    IMHO, there's so many established rounds out there with popular

    support that any new caliber is going to have to run

    the gauntlet of public and manufacturing disinterest.

    This pays off for us, a sort of "ballistic Darwinism",

    only calibers with a strong following,suited well to

    multiple purposes will survive, giving us better overall

    choices in the end...
     
  20. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    i agree, for a new caliber to come out on the market and make a go of it successfully, it will have to be pretty radical! pretty much anything a person could want for a rifle for, there is already an established and proven caliber already if not several. some people will want something different and oddball and there will be someone who makes it, and IMO, that a good thing. i like oddball calibers and would own plenty more if my checkbook was bigger!