Why So Few Bullpups?

Discussion in 'Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion' started by Olympus, Mar 13, 2013.

  1. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    I wondered about this yesterday. With all the craze about SBRs, what aren't we seeing more companies offering a bullpup model? I had a real bad itch to buy a PS90 last year but just couldn't pay the price. I spent a lot of time fondling and it was ridiculously easy to point and carry. I kept asking if it was really a 16" barrel because it felt so short.

    Maybe it's just me, but this seems like a huge untapped market. Especially if you could very the price around $1000 or less.
     
  2. ShagNasty1001

    ShagNasty1001 New Member

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  3. InDefenseofLiberty

    InDefenseofLiberty New Member

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  4. RUG3R44

    RUG3R44 New Member

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    Most aren't (lefty) friendly, which leaves me out. Plus they're expensive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  5. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    ARs aren't exactly lefty friendly either. And some of them are expensive too.

    I'm wondering if the design is what dictates the high price on the bullpups?

    They also seem to be more of a European thing. Have American manufacturers not caught the hint?
     
  6. InDefenseofLiberty

    InDefenseofLiberty New Member

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    The reason they are more prevalent over there is the old architecture of the buildings and cities lends to much closer quarters than what we have here. 24"corridors make even a short AR too long to quickly turn around if needed.

    I saw an Israeli special forces guy talking and demonstrating the close quarters they have, on the military channel. That's why they adopted the FN.

    Bull pups are almost all different from each other (hence the high price) whereas AR's and AK's are relatively standardized.
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    They are unwieldy and not terribly user friendly with complicated linkages to connect trigger to sear. While a person can learn to be quick with one they are slow to reload due to fine muscle skill needed to reach back and manipulate the magazine in an unnatural location.

    Bullpup designs also dont lend well to multi tasking as in they arent terribly good at hanging things like launchers designators or optics.

    They arent new as several have been available since the late 80's. Our culture likes using what our military uses. Thats why the m1 carbine/garand 1903 m1a were so popular and why the ar15 is in everyone's closet. Despite the democrats attempts to de-man this nation we are still and will be for some time a military centered society.

    Our second ammendment stems from the need for a strong civilian pool with military firearms in times of need. So until our culture changes or our govt adopts a bullpup they will only be a curiosity.
     
  8. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    About 4-5 years ago I got into a discussion with an Australian NCO about the Steyr AUG. I remember he wasn't all that happy with the accuracy. He liked the quick-change barrel and ambidextrous features but a soldier has to take what his country gives him. So, if you're only used to a bullpup, then you get as good as you can with it and don't have much to compare it to, especially in countries with strict civilian gun regulation. And a lot of these bullpup designs are coming out of factories in Europe and fulfilling domestic or 3rd World military contracts. A whole generation of American kids are learning about these weapons playing video games so there's some curiosity about them. Personally, I want my mag near my mag-change hand and not under my armpit.
     
  9. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    I held an AUG Stg77 in the early 90's and fell in love. Granted I was a child at the time, but the memory has stuck with me. A relative of mine was a Fed LEO and was issued it, the real deal select fire.

    I too as an adult was suspicious of them bc I've always shot AR platforms. Last weekend I purchased a MSAR Stg-556 and love it. There just isn't a lot of info out there, so I'm researching like crazy. I posted here, but no answers to my probs yet.

    Probs: 1913 rail is a tad too high for a proper cheek weld using my MeproLight M21M. Trigger needs help. Mags changes slower, mag carriers need to stay to the left or ride low. Mags are expensive and parts are hard to find.

    I don't think BPs will ever catch on in the US, but they offer some serious advantages for specific uses, CQB, truck gun, clearing your house.
     
  10. Gizord1

    Gizord1 New Member

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    I want to get a bullpup stock for my SKS, when I get some extra cash. I love bullpup rifles, they're easy to maneuver with, shorter, and still pack the same punch!
     
  11. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    Perfect Commentary...

    I've nothing to add.

    Tack
     
  12. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have a PS90 and love it. But I've shot a couple of FS2000s and an AUG, and I wouldn't trade an Ar-15 for either one.
     
  13. CrazedJava

    CrazedJava New Member

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    I've held the FS2000. Loved the weight but it was bulky in a way that even a Mini-14 or an AK is not. Is there still a civilian AUG? Even without the bulk, there are the other problems JonM mentioned.

    I like the TAVOR and have pondered getting one when they come available. Other than that, no bullpups have any advantages that outweigh their disadvantages.
     
  14. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    I believe the US made AUG A3 is still available. I don't think you can put a STANANG stock on it for legal reasons though. Maybe C3 can clear this up?
     
  15. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I have shot a P-90 (yes the full auto version. It was a hoot). I used to have a Bushmaster M-17S. I was just getting used to it when I had to sell it :(. It felt heavy and bulky even though it was neither. The balance is very different than an AR so it was weird. Very accurate, took several coyotes with it.

    Bull pups are just not a major part of our culture. It took 20 years for AR's to really catch on and 20 more to explode in popularity. Americans like steel and wood. Polymer is all the craze now, but not so for a long time.

    The triggers are generally pretty crappy with the linkage needed to reach the sear.
     
  16. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

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    The heck with the short AR, I couldn't walk down a 24" corridor, and wouldn't want to, no less quickly turn around if needed! Two feet -- that CAN'T be right. That's a sewer pipe, not a hallway!!!

    Steyr's AUG -- great gun.
     
  17. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    If you have ever seen a rifle have an out of battery discharge, or kaboom, and notice that most of the damage is in teh vacinity of the barrel/bolt interface. Then take a look at where a bullpup positions that part of the rilfe. Catching some fragments in teh hands is pretty survivable. Chunks in your head, may be survivable, but you may never chew food again, or wipe your own butt.
     
  18. Viking

    Viking Active Member

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    This is the situation has definitely crossed my mind. As to a BP stock for a Mini-14, seems to me that the trigger linkage could be problematic.
     
  19. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    I never thought about what SSGN said, it makes sense....but the Brits, Aussies, and countless others have been using bull pups for a long time. The AUG has been in use since 1977. I was never a fan until recently, I've always been an AR guy. Maybe since ARs are better fighting rifles at distance and we Americans have so much wide open land vs Europe's more crowded cities and confined spaces. I don't think they will ever be big here. The only hope is the Tavor.
     
  20. rachilders

    rachilders New Member

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    Like other posters have pointed out, I think BP designs aren't part of the American culture because it's not a home grown design or used by the military here, at least not yet. AR's took nearly half a century after Stoner designed them in the 1950's to become the design of choice gun in the US they are today and there are still many shooters, especially traditionalists, who want nothing to do with them. Same thing with polymer handguns. Still, if a BP design is ever adopted by our military, they will eventually catch on. However, I don't think bullpup style rifles will ever be popular to the degree that the AR design is due to the limitations of the BP design... it's a short-medium range and CQC weapon.

    OTOH, there are other options available for someone wanting a SBR style weapon for home defense or a truck gun. Here's one I built a few years ago using a Kel-Tec PLR-16 pistol with a 9 1/2" barrel as the base weapon. All total it cost me less than most entry level AR's (pre-Newtown prices) at $800. The hardest part was the six month wait for the Class III stamp to arrive in the mail.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013