Why Rob Pincus now prefers the 9mm over .40 S&W for self defense

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by BigByrd47119, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    I ran across this article on another forum and thought it merited being brought up here. Its, in my opinion, a great article.

    I'm highly interested in everyone's take on this!

    Why Rob Pincus now prefers the 9mm over .40 S&W for self defense

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2011
  2. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    >So, why do I think the 9mm is a better choice for personal defense . (snip) . the best recommendation I can give.<

    That’s what I thought.
     

  3. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Never had a doubt. The fact that 9mm and .40 ammo availability is abundant, fairly priced and can be obtained most any place has always been a factor.

    Being shot with either one will definitely be an instant attitude adjustment.

    Being shot faster, repeatedly and with more rounds for shot placement, the 9mm will kill you...period. :cool:
     
  4. Alchemist

    Alchemist New Member

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    Yeah... well... Writers need to write about SOMETHING... That's how they make their living. This is better... that's better... this COULD be better... that COULD be better... I used to like like Chevys, now I like Fords... but Chevys aren't bad either... what-EVerrrr...

    #1 rule for a gunfight:

    Have a gun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  5. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    I'm certainly glad to see that issue is finally settled once and for all. :rolleyes:
    We need never speak of it again.
    Now for the ongoing "tastes great" vs. "Less filling" debate.
     
  6. hydrashok

    hydrashok New Member

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    So.... having a 9mm is better because of the ECONOMY of it????

    I refuse to make my SELF DEFENSE selection based, primarily, on COST!

    I, once, carried a 9mm for self defense (Browning Hi-Power). I got into a shooting with said 9mm. I lived, the bad guy didn't. However, the police measured 21 meters from gun-to-gun. Using Federal Hydrashoks, every round went all the way through the bad guy.

    The 9mm is just too fast for my comfort, so I don't carry it anymore. My choice wasn't based on the economy of what I carry, but the effectiveness without overpenetration.
     
  7. usmcprofessional

    usmcprofessional New Member

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    wounding potential? definitly not what i look for in a fire arm. his basic argument can be said the same for the .22. if you want more rounds and faster rate of fire with control, and a "wounding" potential, why not defend yourself and your home with a .22? according to his logic you are a frickin genius if you do.
     
  8. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Based on the performance of any size choice of handgun caliber, shot placement delivery and the more holes you can put into someone, causing more loss of blood and internal organ/tissue/CNS damage, are always the top two actions that determine any shootout loser/winner.
     
  9. usmcprofessional

    usmcprofessional New Member

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    so again, following logic, the .22 would be the best choice. it holds the most rounds and it is the easiest to control. and following the other guy its cheap. not to mention .22 pistols can be fired almost rapid without that much kickback. if we want to discuss shot placement and blood loss potential than more is better, and the control over the more would make the most sense right? to me the .22 is the best choice for those areas.
     
  10. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    I think the moral of the story (from the authors perspective) is that the .40 S&W round simply isn't "better enough" than the 9mm to excuse its higher price, higher recoil, and lower capacity.

    I would agree here strongly when it becomes an issue of how often someone going to the range to shoot. Aside from that, I'm really undecided. I think the 9mm is more than acceptable when fired from a adequate length barrel.
     
  11. knfxda

    knfxda New Member

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    You're missing or ignoring the point of his argument. The point being that (wounding potential of each bullet) X (# of bullets that can be fired in a given period of time) X (likelihood of the bullet hitting it's intended point of impact) is greater for the 9mm when compared to the .40. He feels this is true because of how close the wounding potential is between the the calibers. The second two factors for the9 outweigh the first factor for the 40.

    However, I don't think that the argument applies when comparing a .22 to a 9 mm. You are omitting the first factor. The second 2 factors in favor of the .22 are not enough to trump the 9's advantage in the 1st.

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
  12. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    That settles it!

    I'm buying Kel Tec's new 30 round .22 Mag Auto Pistol.:)

    I can trade all my 9mm's, .40's, and .45's for enough 22 Mag ammo to keep me shooting for the next 40 years!

    TACK
     
  13. usmcprofessional

    usmcprofessional New Member

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    no i got the point of the author. im just playing devils advocate. im just applying the logic to a different pistol. but to fill in the blanks.(.22s -according to practically everyone on this website- are ungodly lethal) X (.22 pistols hold past 20 rounds, more than other handguns, with better control) X (.22s are very accurate so more rounds on intended target or into target.) im not arguing that the 9 isnt or is better than the 40 im just trying to point out that by the ideas presented it can be argued that the .22 would be most favorable.

    personally i dont give a sh*t what people discuss between a 9 or 40. i carry a 1911 so i dont need to argue a damn thing.
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    ok who is rob pincus and why should i care??

    my wife uses a 380 and will be using an xdm in 9mm because she can use them for prolonged practice with little fatigue. she also shoots them well center mass repeated hits. she controls them better than a 45acp. cost factor is not an issue for SD.

    me, i use a 45acp and sometimes 380acp. i like 1911s, sigs, XDs.

    if your really worried about costs start reloading. i roll out 45acp ammo cheaper than buying 9mm.


    +1!!
     
  15. knfxda

    knfxda New Member

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    Your "savings" is a false economy. It assumes that your time isn't worth any thing. I pay $0.20/round for 9mm. How much less could you be rolling your own .45s for? And how much time and effort does it take?

    *Note, I am not knocking reloading. I wish I had that skill and may one day decide to develop it.

    And the economic point wasn't about how much the 1-2 dozen defense rounds you have loaded in your gun cost, it was about the larger cost if running thousands if rounds in practicing with your SD weapon.

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
  16. knfxda

    knfxda New Member

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    I should add that I don't run cheap Russian steel ammo. So I know the are better prices, but at a quality level that I personally don't care for.

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
  17. knfxda

    knfxda New Member

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    Yeah but you're misapplying his logic by using the deadliness of the 22 in a way that even comes close to the 9 mm. His logic, applied properly would conclude that the 9 would trump the 22.

    Personally, I just think everyone should carry what works for them. That is the best caliber.

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
  18. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    dont take this for bashing you that isnt my intent.

    i enjoy loading my own ammo just as much as shooting it. but its not hard to do. just a little attention to detail.

    45acp reloads is about the same as brass cased cheap factory. i can make .11$~ a round for 115 grn fmj 9mm. what i produce is better than factory. if i checked the size of each case i can make my loads 100% reliable for an extra 25 minutes of effort. but tossing in an unknown overlong case is good for practicing those stoppage drills ;)

    straight wall pistol is very easy. if i didnt reload i would maybe be able to fire 200 rounds month as opposed to 500 of 45acp. i also load for several different rifles 556, 308, 30-06, and more than a few others.

    i can crank out nearly 1000 an hour on the dillon 650 so half hourish to load 500 rounds saves me 70-80$ on even the cheap steel cased stuff. half hour of time at the bench doing something i enjoy is worth my time. local shop here sells berry plated bullets for the 45 for 69$ per 500 last time i bought a box. tulammo cheap steel cased is ~180$ per 500. my cost is ~100$ per 500 reloaded. 1 pound of powder loads about 815-820 rounds depending on how clumsy i am 500 primers brings the total cost to about .20$ a round. 45acp is about .36$ a pop for the cheapest factory

    i still beat the cheapest 9mm by about 15$ per 500.

    for my wife's shooting her 9mm will cost about 115$ per 1000 reloaded. i dont think your going to get anywhere near that for factory ammo of any sort.

    if i buy tulammo im spending an extra 80$ to pay someone else to load whats for me a half hour of making ammo. not much of a deal or a good expenditure of labor.

    reloading lets you shoot more for the money. it almost doubles the ammo i can shoot for the same cost.

    it adds up to more rounds downrange. i dont think its a false economy. ill even cut the savings in half to 40$ for a half hour. thats more than i make at work.

    if i amortorize it out over the years and spend back the savings into more loading gear or guns i could fill my entire house with a dillon xl650 for ech caliber i shoot.

    anyone who is serious about self defense training should seriously consider shifting the funds for that next firearm to a progressive loading machine and accessories of some sort.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  19. knfxda

    knfxda New Member

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    If anything you're making me want to accelerate my plans to reload one day!

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
  20. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    If you dont mind shooting unplated lead its even cheaper. Somewhere down around .05$ a round for 45acp if you make your own lead cast bullets. You can also skim some $$ off using lighter bullets and lighter charges. Personally my line is drawn atm of casting my own. Im just not comfy with the idea of molten lead and lead fumes if it gets too hot and boils.

    Hell it took me nearly a year to try my muzzleloader... im just very cautious about dangerous safety stuff with firearms
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011