Why I will never by steel cased ammo again

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by t_humm, Nov 29, 2013.

  1. t_humm

    t_humm New Member

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    Well I went to the range today, fired my first shot and this wonderful case decided to get stuck.
    Invade you can't see it, sorry it's my phone camera, the wedge of the case was also sheeted off
     
  2. t_humm

    t_humm New Member

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    Sorry forgot the pics.

    I ended up getting it out but it tools few good hits
     

    Attached Files:


  3. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I see no picture.

    I don't know what your last statement means.

    What type if ammo? Brand, case type, coating type?

    What type of rifle? AR I'm assuming. Brand, carbine or rifle, chrome lining or not, gas system DI or piston?

    What cleaning and inspection was done prior to firing?

    Not trying to be a pain but you will probably get asked some if these questions as the thread progresses. I figure we could cut to the chase. It's also good data for determining contributing causes or compiling data on certain manufacturers of guns or ammo having problems.

    Thanks in advance for your contribution of data.
     
  4. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if its just the pic, but the top
    Pic looks like there is a bit of a lip on the chamber mouth. You may want to get the rifle checked by a gunsmith if that is the case, or if it is a brand new rifle, call the manufacturer.
     
  5. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    How did the rim of the case get buggered up like that?
     
  6. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    OK, I saw the picture in your other post. So it answers a couple of questions, that is definitely a DI gas system, AR.

    Another question I came up with is:

    Is it a carbine gas system, mid-length, or rifle length?

    Is the gun new or pre-owned?
     
  7. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    OK to keep things simple I will repost my questions in this thread, since the pics are in this one.


    What type if ammo? Brand, case type, coating type?

    What type of rifle? AR I'm assuming. Brand, carbine or rifle, chrome lining or not, gas system DI or piston?

    What cleaning and inspection was done prior to firing?

    Is it a carbine gas system, mid-length, or rifle length?

    What type of buffer are you running? Standard, H, H1, H2, 9mm, etc.?

    Is the gun new or pre-owned?

    Not trying to be a pain but you will probably get asked some if these questions as the thread progresses. I figure we could cut to the chase. It's also good data for determining contributing causes or compiling data on certain manufacturers of guns or ammo having problems.
     
  8. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    My guess would be that the case rim got sheared off because the case was stuck in the chamber? May have had another round shoved into the back as well.
     
  9. t_humm

    t_humm New Member

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    Whindam Weaponry SRC
    Carbine length
    DI gas system
    Not brand new but I'm the first owner, probably 150-200 rounds through it (all brass until today)

    The ammo was Tulammo .223
    Steel cased FMJ
    Walmart $5.27

    I took it home and knocked the case out with a cleaning kit and fired another 79 rounds of steel case through with no problems.

    Here's the extractor, looks fine to me just dirty.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. t_humm

    t_humm New Member

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    Also it was cleaned initially after shooting last time, probably 3 weeks ago. Wasn't touched until today
     
  11. JayCody

    JayCody New Member

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    How clean is the chamber? A dirty firearm is prone to steel cases getting stuck
     
  12. t_humm

    t_humm New Member

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    Yeah sorry about that forgot to put the pictures in. but I made a new thread? I don't know, not my day I guess
     
  13. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Fired lots of steel case in the last year.
    Rifles: LMT, LWRC, Delton.
    Not a single problem.

    Some Ar's are more prone to problems with steel case than others tho ..
    Also: Which bran do ammo was it? TulA?, Wolf military classic? wolf WPA? brown bear?

    What exact model of AR?
     
  14. t_humm

    t_humm New Member

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    Well it's not clean now, however it was thoroughly cleaned after I shot it last time
     
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    maybe just an out of spec case on the ammo?
     
  16. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Probably just a fluke. Put more of that steel in and let her rip
     
  17. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Just some thoughts:

    Carbine gas systems tend to be a bit over-gassed. This is because of the gas port being closer to the chamber and also having more bore past the gas port before getting to the muzzle. So gas pressure at the port is higher due to the lower bore volume to drop the gas pressure before venting gas rearward into the bolt carrier. Gas is also vented rearward longer, because the bullet has farther to travel past the gas port before exiting the muzzle. This blows more garbage into the bolt carrier and action than you would get from a midlength or rifle length gas system. The higher pressure makes extraction a bit harsher than the other gas systems as well. Using a heavier buffer can make the extraction less harsh. Steel case rims are a bit more brittle and can shear more easily if a case is stuck and jerked more harshly.

    The AR with its direct impingement gas system and steel cased ammo can make a dirty chamber faster than average, because the steel cases don't expand as fully and gas and carbon blow around the cases and dirty the chamber up faster. If the chamber was never cleaned of the factory oil with solvent and a chamber mop, that powder residue and factory storage oil could cool and make a gritty paste that would potentially make a prime place for a case to get stuck. Also if you cleaned it and stored it with excessive chamber oil and didn't swab it out before shooting it could I tease some hydraulic pressure around the case and make it harder to extract.

    It doesn't seem to be an extractor problem, because it held on tight enough to rip off the rim.

    None of what I shared may make you want to continue to use steel cased ammo. Just some things to consider for folks who do use steel case in ARs.
     
  18. hmh

    hmh New Member

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    Its not just a fluke I had the same thing happen on 2 different ar and they wouldn't reliably shoot out of an m1a.
     
  19. t_humm

    t_humm New Member

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    Well I sucked it up and used the rest of my steel, about 120 rounds total just that one FTE so I'm gonna write it off as a fluke.

    It just gave me a bad impression since it was the first steel case I used in it.
     
  20. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    I see this happen alot in non chrome lined chambers, never seen it happen in a quality chrome lined chambered barrel . Never stuck one in a 5.56 AR . But have in a 7.62x39 non chrome lined barrel , a little bit of polishing to the chamber and its been fixed