why i do not OC

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by JonM, Jul 13, 2014.

  1. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    this is why i do not open carry. it makes you a target. this security guard was open carrying. it was not a deterrent and because he did not have a concealed firearm he was a target leading to the murder of a police officer by a knofe wielding nutball.

    open carry i firmly believe makes you a target. i am however surpotive of OC because it makes ME less of a target if someone is ocing. oc does allow me to not have to worry about accidentally exposing my firearm or printing

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/1...hot-killed-on-robbery-call/?intcmp=latestnews
     
  2. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    jeeze, and you're a moderator who has personally closed OC v CC threads, and you decide to open one yourself?

    Since the last debate, a local forum member who I personally know, walked into a gas station store OC. Couple of guys a row over said, come on, we gotta go, dudes gotta gun... and they left.

    Friend of mine came across some rabel rousers in his neighborhood. He was OC his 1911. He challenged them to stop with the nonsense. They were going to get him until they noticed the 1911.

    I personally know both of this people.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    its ok to discuss oc vs ccw issues. so long as it does not devolve into hate filled diatribes against other member's opinions, which is why threads get closed. there are only a few content or topic issues we automatically close threads for.

    if i was restricted to topics solely based on things i have not closed threads dealing with i wouldnt be posting... heh

    a few examples but not all of them:

    racist topics
    politics outside appropriate premium forums
    sexual content in open forums
    illegal activity
    scamming
    selling outside vendor or classifieds
     
  4. mopowerbmx

    mopowerbmx New Member

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    OC or CC, as long as you carry it's a right. I'm tired of the debate.being a target for OC is minimal. Being a CC just institutes the fear of guns.
     
  5. shadecorp

    shadecorp Active Member Supporter

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    Here in calif.
    I can not carry either way.
    I believe I would carry concealed if the laws were changed.
     
  6. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    IMO, we have to sacrifice so much to be gun owners,

    and carriers, these days. We pay thru the nose for registrations

    that criminals get for free. We are listed, counted, taxed, and treated

    like inferiors and pariahs, after showing spotless records for

    sobriety, law abiding, domestic harmony and zero drug use.

    We are hounded by government agencies, and face dozens of

    other challenges, difficulties, and issues by mere rote of gun ownership.


    Under what possible circumstances could any sane gun owner even remotely

    consider surrendering the last great advantage of concealed carry?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  7. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    I agree with you on many topics Jon but I'm sorry to say your a bit "out to lunch" on this one my friend. ;)

    We have a knife wielding psycho who targeted a security guard, took a gun, and shot a cop.

    Your premise assumes the perp knew there would be a gun present and chose the location for this reason, specifically to get a gun, so he could them wait around to shoot a cop?

    If his intent was to kill a cop, and he was able to charm himself close enough to a lone security guard to inflict a fatal knife attack... Why not just find a lone Cop and bypass the security guard altogether?

    Is it possible this was a psycho intent on a mass stabbing, took out the guard first, and the gun was simply a "bonus?"

    Whether he was after a gun, or plotting a mass stabbing, would it not logical for him to fist kill the guard regardless of whether or not the guard was armed?

    I move we rename this thread "REACHING"...

    Too many of us have personally seen the mere presence of a firearm dissuade violence to believe that cases like these are anything more than an anomaly of "minimal" proportions.

    Tack
     
  8. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    Huh? Killing cops and security guards has nothing to do with oc or cc. That wack job just wanted to kill authority figures. Maybe cops should stop wearing uniforms and badges. That's quite a stretch Jon.
     
  9. phildenton

    phildenton New Member

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    I used to be strong oc supporter. Then the mess started with starbucks and spiraled downwards from there. I still oc revolver out in the rural areas, when hunting (revolver is with me), backpacking of course, or at the shooting range (obviously), and the car holster is in plain sight. Other than that I would rather keep it hidden, because I dont usually have time to spare dealimg with the dumb****s who try to provoke a fight (seattle comes to mind: man legally oc was harassed and bullied, but kept his cool). I dont oc long guns, even though its legal here, unless I am hunting. Its time to regroup and strategize right now. I know its mostly the asshat keyboard commandos with an ar that are causing us grief. I sometimes wonder if its liberals doing it to make trouble.
     
  10. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Most police officers that are shot are shot with their own gun. Police officers take+ retention seriously. Every officer in this are carries a holster with double or triple retention devices. Yet criminals still manage to get officers weapons. I seriously doubt your average OCer is as well prepared as these fallen officers.

    I am not against responsible open carry. But people who make me wonder if they are MDA plants I have issues with their behavior. I open carry myself but I am very respectful of private property. I leave my gun locked in the truck when I visit friends with children. I do the same when I enter a business unless the owners actually open carry themselves.
     
  11. DrFootball

    DrFootball disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED... Lifetime Supporter

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    Our small town has only a handful of officers, and gets it's dispatch out of a larger town next to us,..with support from the County as well,..
    On any given major incident, we could have 3 different departments responding. Perps never last long on the run here. There was a guy who escaped Monday morning from a transit in a jumpsuit shackled. Well he had help to get out of them clearly, they still managed to find him Thursday Am. Along the River access in camp verde,.... Idiot was trying to build a raft to go upstream to get back behind the mountains bordering the Joint Reserve base Navaho in Williams, get on a rail car outside of the track lay ups in the base area and take a boxcar to California...
    Our Town Sgt. Was by today and stopped to say hello while I was out front killing weeds,. His brother in law was one of the county Deputies that found the guy. He related the story to me.mThe whole mortal of the story is I do support OC and carry openly in the Desert, or on my property. I'm more comfortable practicing Concealed Carry and do when not on my property or out and about in town....


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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  12. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    Since I am not a LEO, Bank Guard, MP, etc........I see no reason to display my firearm. I conceal carry for purposes of self defense - only. I don't carry a gun to protect you, or the guy next to me, or the guy across the room. It's for self defense.

    one big + for open carry - I can carry a full-sized handgun comfortably that way. My 'love handles' prohibit me from IWB carry of my CZ75, Full-size S&W, etc. In the winter, no big deal, coat covers it. In the summer, different story....Tommy Bahama shirts I guess
     
  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    this.

    i like to carry my berreta M9 with its 20 round mag. thats a lot of comfort to me having that much ammo without reloading. however without OC i wouldnt be able to carry it easily since it sticks out the bottom of most of my shirts.

    do not confuse my reluctance to openly display firearms and giving up a huge tactical advantage in self defense for being against OC. i want OC laws to exist so i dont have to worry if a shirt tail rides up or a gun outline shows.

    as to the original story yes the guy targeted the security guard because he was carrying a gun. i dont think he went to the shop to wait for a OC'r but it was the first gun he saw so he took advantage of the moment. if the guard had been a civilian OC'ing the result would have been the same. his open display of a handgun made him a target. thats my point.

    the other thing that goes with open display of a handgun is you have to be extra wary of any person around you. when i was doing the MP thing i liked my flap holster because it made it hard for the person i was fighting to get my gun. what i didnt like was having to be constantly vigilant of everyone around me and i spent my tiume in public trying to guard the gun from being snatched.

    a concealed firearm is MUCH harder to steal than one sitting openly in a holster. its bad enough you can get your pockets picked wallet stolen etc but its a LOT harder to steal a gun out of a holster thats in a front pocket inside a waste band or outside one but covered in clothing.
     
  14. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Doc has a valid point!

    Common Sense!
    There is a time to OC and a time to CC!
    I recall one thread comment here on the FTF that advised that because the member was CO a wise A** punk confronted him personally and belligerently challenged him to DO SOMETHING BIG MAN! That is not a good situation to be in although the older gentleman handled the situation very well and I compliented him for his actions. But I could easily see it going South! And as one mentioned, a prison educated con might not think twice about attempting to take a weapon off a citizens with OC. The practice in prison to disarm the police and others. Also the Starbuck and Target issue comes up. If you a CC know one knows you are carrying and do have the ability to defend yourself and others. I personally see a great need to OC in the desert, hunting and other areas. But think it is best to CC when out in public. Simply goes back to the common sense issue and I do not want to add fuel to the Anti-Gun Liberal Socialist public's cause. Only an opinion and we all have the right to have one!:)

    03
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  15. hawkguy

    hawkguy Well-Known Member

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    personally, and i realize this is MY preference and opinion, i think OC for SD makes little sense for SD for citizen. so i agree with Jon on this. BUT...i recognize of course, not everyone agrees with this position.

    i don't think OC should be illegal. HOWEVER, i do think OC carry persons should be held to common sense etiquette through law.

    just as loud, obscene music/talk can be an abuse of free speech by disturbing the peace.....alarm raised with firearms is an abuse of 2A rights imo. OC carriers must always do so in a non-threatening manner. thus, hands off their OC weapon unless it is to be used. weapons holstered and rifles slung and hands off. any other behavior should be punished by law as a disturbance of the peace.

    it is also my opinon that OC should always be done for purpose, not politics....unless part of a planned public display.

    i won't post again on this thread. i admit i am not a fan of OC for SD in general (and I HATE when it is used for politics or alarm). but i don't think it should be illegal either. common sense should be enforced however. i have OC a rifle MANY times.....WITH A PURPOSE TO DO SO! and i have NEVER caused alarm or issues in doing so, that i am aware of. :)

    as said, feel free to disagree. but i will not respond again on this thread.

     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  16. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Well, I look at it this way.

    If all I have on me is a pistol, which is usually the case, then I don't want to advertise to anyone else that all I'm armed with is a pistol if the law does not force me to open carry.

    I think the element of surprise is lost anytime someone knows you have a weapon and you are alone.

    Call me crazy, but I think the knife wielder in Jon's post would've killed whomever he wanted to kill because he was crazy and looking for someone to kill. Nobody is totally alert and expecting to be killed by loony toons 24/7 and so it makes little difference as to whether a weapon is carried concealed or openly.

    So, if you feel the need to open carry, fine. That said, carrying firearms is not and should never be a political statement or done to cause fear or incite a response from other people. If that is what the law requires, so be it. Otherwise, why not keep would-be criminals guessing? Criminals don't advertise that they're about to attack you, unless they're stupid, and yes, many of them aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. It's not something I would ever choose to do, but to each his own.
     
  17. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    Consider my 85 year old father in law. He walks on a cane, parks in Handicap spots.

    To a criminal, he is a soft target with no means of protecting himself (discounting our own cane expert :) ). When he open carries, he is no longer a soft target, but one that might actually fight back. Yes, it is possible he might lose the firearm to a brazen criminal that might attempt to take it from him, but the odds are much better that criminal will find a "softer" target to hit.

    In MI, the OC movement is very active and extremely successful. We have chosen to only focusing on handgun OC. Yes, it causes some internal bickering, but we don't reject LGOC, only advocate handgun.

    Personally, I do both (or all three if you consider Virginia Tuck). Depends on where I'm going, what I'm doing, and what may be more comfortable.

    Jon, how many non LEO OC citizens have had their firearms taken from them?

    How many OC citizens have had to use their firearm in SD vs CC citizens?

    I don't have data for the second question, but I'd bet money on the number being considerably lower for OC citizens.
     
  18. gunny91

    gunny91 New Member

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    I respect JonM. He has helped me out with alot of information I needed....but also like he said dont turn it into a fight....but I open carry....thats just me I dont do it for attention or to scare anyone I do it cause thats the way i like to carry .....I get comments on it good and bad but everyone is intitled to there opinion....but I have heard alot of ppl say OC makes you a target. Thats there believe mine is different im not gonna hide my firearm that just seems to me ur afraid that u r gonna be a target and not confident that u can handle the situation when the time comes if a guy sees my firearm on my hip that plans to rob me or the store im in he just maybe might think twice once he sees mine on my hip
     
  19. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are also endless accounts of unarmed victims.


    No offense and none taken
     
  20. DrFootball

    DrFootball disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED... Lifetime Supporter

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    Thanks 03! The two to three days a month I have ranger duty is when we OC, because it's Required.


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