Why Folks Should Carry at Church

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by Gatoragn, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Well-Known Member

    Since different churches are governed differently, answering who the security team works for could have some variables defined by the governance of the church. Our local church in Iowa that I served was congregational governed, thus the security team, whether internal or hired from outside the congregation worked for the congregation who, though elder led, made the security decision as a voting body.
    Ironically there are no specific written training guidelines for an internal team or a hired team. We chose to apply some rigorous training requirements in addition to the required training for carry permit in Iowa, which is minimal and does not really cover what is involved in a church security aspect. We modeled our training after a local police regimen and required all who were part of security to go through some specific training first. The congregation, again, decides what training is required for an internal team. Our greatest fear was/is accidentally wounding an innocent through negligent or poorly trained use of force.
    No known state guidelines exist for church security as per county sheriff.
    The church (congregation) is ultimately accountable/liable for any actions, as they decided upon the course of action for security.
    At the time, we did not have a written contractual document for internal security, but in hindsight that might be wise.

    As a final comment, I do not generally like or intend to respond to the comments of Nmwabbit because of his derogatory attitude towards law enforcement and overall snide remarks, but I do think he asked some important questions to consider in this regard even if his motive was self serving.
  2. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    Any crowded place is a potential target.
    JimRau, Trunk Monkey and Ghost1958 like this.

  3. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Guest

    Per U.S. tax law, churches are considered to be public charities, also known as Section 501(c)(3) organizations. As such, they are generally exempt from federal, state, and local income and property taxes.

    While these numbers are estimates based on a University of Tampa study, we could get up to $83.5 billion of additional revenue if religious institutions paid into the government’s coffers like the rest of us.

    Therefore churches do not qualify nor receive federal funding for their activities.
  4. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Guest

    So there is no documented governance regarding appropriate training standards, SOPs, whose liable in an incident, and forth, or who in the congregation is truly in charge?

    final note, should not listen to anybody but a qualified attorney...your kind attention is directed to Iowa statutes chapter 21,

    at: https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/ACO/chapter/661.121.pdf
  5. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Well-Known Member

    Chap 21 does not apply to internal church security.
    Oldoutlaw likes this.
  6. TelstaR

    TelstaR Well-Known Member


    I would say that 100 posts and six pages of comments may suggest otherwise.
  7. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

    I say that because most churches are on lockdown.

    In Colorado church services are limited to a hundred and seventy-five people. My church requires reservations.

    In my opinion that many restrictions makes churches a much harder target than they previously were
  8. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Guest

    And why is that agedwarrior?

    You are absolutely correct...typo that should have read admistra“121”

    my sincere apologies...

    Oh might also check out 80A.

    might validate “person’s exempt...” as you will notice the words churches aren’t mentioned!
  9. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

    In ky the churches cant be locked down though some including mine have went to outdoor sevices , which still have security.
  10. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

    I did not 'go again', I simply stated the obvious, no slur involved! You just way over complicate things, that is a fact, not a slur. Again, are you an attorney??? Why can't you simply that answer the question??:rolleyes:
  11. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Guest

    Not germane jimrau, not in the least!
  12. freefall

    freefall Well-Known Member

  13. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

    I is you are an attorney, or at lest you act like one.;) You refuse to answer a DIRECT question and hide behind the 'wabbit'. It is NOT POSSIBLE to have a constructive discussion if one side, you, refuses to be honest and forth coming!!!:(
    austin92 likes this.
  14. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Guest

    Jimrau, please show where i have failed to respond to a viable query regarding the subject at hand?

    if the question is frivolous or not germane whatsoever and specifically proffered to incite ridicule and enhance someone’s ego, i seen no reason to respond, therefore do not!

    you should focus on appropriately responding on the opinion subject matter proffered by any member instead of grousing over trying to satisfying your super-ego’s urges w/absurd questions.

    further, jimrau, do/have you challenged every member’s identity name, such as freefall, manta, trunk monkey, or g66enigma, or any of moderators monikers the same way you are constantly challenging mine?
  15. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

    I have never 'challenged' your identity. That said, I find it a direct consideration of ones creditably when they refuse to answer very basic questions.
    I don't 'challenge' your identity, BUT I think that when a person refuses to ID themselves and/or refuses to answers some BASIC questions about themselves on the INTERNET it show a lack of credibility on their part. I believe in being open and honest with those I communicate with and EXCEPT THE SAME from them, IF THEY WANT TO BE CONSIDERED CREDITABLE. Just basic courtesy!:) I am self confident, but I do not have a 'super ego'. So who is ridiculing who here???;)
  16. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Guest

    oh no jimrau...that you posted the same tired tirade theme on two separate thread s does not show you have a super-ego whatsoever. (memes help establish your believe in your ego jimrau!)

    and yes jimrau i truly believe you feel you have been open & honest...

    finally why do you feel you deserve even basic courtesy from this member as you insist on continuing to hurl disparaging remarks towards me.
  17. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

    Is this still going on?
    austin92 and Oldoutlaw like this.
  18. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

    Because you deserve them!!!:p Have a nice day:) and try to over complicate as much as you can, as that will get your 'post' count up, and that appears to me that you are doing, just talking to hear your head raddel!:p
    Oldoutlaw likes this.
  19. RaySendero

    RaySendero Well-Known Member

    LOL - Jim, Stop and think:

    How do you assess the credibility of a troll ?
    JimRau and austin92 like this.
  20. Oldoutlaw

    Oldoutlaw Well-Known Member Supporter

    Wabbit breath just keeps yapping.
    ellis36 and austin92 like this.