Why did the bolt action pistol die?

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by cpttango30, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Why did the Savage and Remington bolt action pistols die?

    I have lusted after an XP-100 from the time I seen one in an old Gun Digest my dad had. I prefer the rear grip over the center grip.....
     
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    If I remember correctly, Weatherby had one too. Personally, I wasn't much into the idea, although a TC Contender has intrigued me for some time.
     

  3. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I thought it was the best of both worlds. You get a pistol with the accuracy of a rifle in a easy to carry package.
     
  4. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    I think the niche was just too small for a regular production bolt hand gun. Aside from silouhette shooters, there's not much that a bolt hand gun can do that a Contender can't, and the Contender is more versatile and cheaper. Witchita still makes a bolt and I think HS Precision has one currently available too.

    I like the center grip XP's better, but I always figured Tango as a "rear grip" kinda guy... :eek:
     
  5. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Because it wasn't made of plastic and come with 30 round clips?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  6. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    I think the TC Contender killed them--it's what everyone in Montana moved to that wanted a rifle platform in pistol size weapon in the early 80s...
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    the pistol/rifle was pretty much in my opinion a gun rag driven fad. TC was the only one that really got it right with all their interchangeable barrels and such. the rest pretty much died off to lack of sales. i remember in the 80's the huge promo given to double stack 9mm if your handgun didnt have 15+ rounds it was utter crap according to every gun magazine guru out there. the pistol/rifles were the same basic thing. TC got the concept right so they made and continue to make money at it today.
     
  8. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    You could easily make the XP-100 a switch barrel then add different bolt heads and you have tons of calibers at hand.
     
  9. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    I think "easily" is a stretch--you must have a LOT more tools than I have--I'm jeolous!
     
  10. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    I've seen switch barrel XP100's set up with a Savage style barrel nut but the bolt face diameter would have to be the same.
     
  11. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    A switch barrel is on where you have say a 243, 260 308 barrels. All are set to be able to be taken off with a simple action wrench that you insert into the bolt raceways and unscrew the action and stock from the barrel that is in a barrel vice. then you remove that barrel from the vice then place a different barrel in the vice and screw the action back on to the barrel then torque it with the action wrench. there is no need for all that ugly looking savage nut junk. Click on the picture below to watch the video on changing out a switch barrel.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. TimL2952

    TimL2952 New Member

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    definitely the TC....my dad had the XP-100 in .35 remington....when the Thompsons came out he sold it and got a Thompson Contender "super 14" in
    .35 remington haha
     
  13. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    I am aware of what switching barrels entails. Without the "ugly looking savage nut junk", how do you plan to set head space? Regardless of whether a barrel has been installed on a bolt action receiver before if there's no way to adjust head space without a lathe then you really don't have switch barrel firearm. You can take a barrel off a bolt action receiver and reinstall in ten seconds later, but you still need to headspace it to take the difference in torque into account which will have an effect on the headspace. Unless you have absolute absolute faith in your thread timing and torque, as well as the tools to measure it, the "ugly looking savage nut junk" is the most reliable way to do it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  14. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    You headspace it when you cut the chamber with the action installed.
     
  15. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    If you headspace it by cutting the chamber with the action installed, you're simply swapping a barrel into a semi permanent position. If you have to cut the chamber every time the barrel is swapped it is not a true switch barrel rifle. Switch barrel meaning that no gunsmithing is needed to swap cartridges aside from unscrewing the barrel and screwing on another and adjusting headspace. Headspace is set on a Savage or Stevens action by screwing the barrel onto the action with a no go guage in the chamber, then tightening the barrel nut to secure the barrel to the receiver. The Remington switch barrel receivers utilize the exact same set up- thread barrel onto receiver with guage to set head space, then tighten barrel nut to maintain correct headspace and secure barrel to receiver. Exactly the same ugly Savage barrel nut system, but it says Remington on the receiver and was converted by a gunsmith who charged for it to set the hadspace with the nut instead of off the barrel shoulder. We can split hairs and say that if the recoil lug is pinned and you use the exact same torque every single time then every bolt rifle/handgun is a switch barrel rifle/ handgun.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  16. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    With a regular action you set the headspace with the barrel on the action and it tightened down to 40 to 60ft #. There is no need for all this chamber cutting. A true switch barrel has set headspace so that with you screw the action back on it it is already headspaced. I have no idea where you are going with this. It is done all the time. The video above shows you that it can be done on a remington action with out trying to make it a savage.

    I know guys that have switch barrels. Some even have different bolts and or bolt heads that switch out. so you can switch from a 223 to a 22-250 in a matter for a few minutes.
     
  17. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    Bottom line was that you can't switch a barrel willey nilley without some significant work involved before hand. You're the one that brought up recutting/ finish reaming a chamber after a barrel is installed. The difference between SWAPPING and SWITCHING is in the interpretation apparently.

    I maintain that with a barrel that is headspaced off the shoulder i.e. Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Sako, or an other action that headspaces off the shoulder of the barrel, you cannot simply screw and unscrew barrels at leisure based on a torque reading. You can't permanently "set headspace" unless there are no variables. Will it go bang after? Sure. Maybe once, maybe ten times or a hundred. Headspace needs to be set with a guage if there is any variable. If a barrel is attached with external threads on the barrel only and internal threads on the receiver only, then there are variables. Everything from torque to lubricant on the threads has an effect on headspace.

    If you really really want to be right then I digress.
     
  18. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Jeep I can put you in contact with guys that have switch barrel guns. There is no barrel nut at all.
     
  19. freefall

    freefall New Member

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    They needed to make a bolt repeater with the bolt on the left hand side. If you're holding the pistol in your right hand and the bolt is on the right side of the action you're in for some inconvenience. A friend of mine had a left hand
    Sako action made up as a 3 rd .358 Win pistol, it's a jewel. If I was into that kind of thing I'd build one. But I'm not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  20. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    To build a pistol out of a rifle action you have to pay the $200 tax stamp and registar it as a SBR.

    You are right that the left bolt right port version would make a much better pistol. Many bench rest shooters have a left bolt right port on their rifles.