Why carry "cocked and locked" instead of chambered with hammer down?

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by mayscat44, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. mayscat44

    mayscat44 New Member

    86
    0
    0
    My thumb pulling the hammer back is no more difficult than my thumb bringing the safety down. It's just one of those things that doesn't make sense to me. Someone please tell me why it's better to be cocked and locked.
     
  2. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

    4,828
    0
    0
    Assuming that you are referring to a 1911 which is designed to be carried "cocked and locked" it is more natural to thumb down the safety while simultaneously putting the sights on target. Many times the hand is twisted or the support hand is used to cock the hammer, this disengages the sights and requires additional time to get back on target...those additional seconds or fractions of a second may cost you your life.
     

  3. mayscat44

    mayscat44 New Member

    86
    0
    0
    "More natural"...not to me. Maybe because I practice my draw by pulling the hammer back after I'm on target. I don't increase my speed by putting the safety down instead. They are both a single movement of the thumb. I've never seen anyone twist the gun because they're pulling the hammer back, and pulling it back with the support hand...well that's just silly.
     
  4. mayscat44

    mayscat44 New Member

    86
    0
    0
    I'm not trying to argue FOR the way I do it. I'm really looking for a SOLID reason why it's better (cocked and locked). So far it just seems like "well, that's just the way it's done."
     
  5. kytowboater

    kytowboater Active Member

    7,180
    4
    38
    For me, it's faster and more natural dropping the safety. If I work the hammer, I have to work at it a little. Just me though.
     
  6. bearrwe

    bearrwe New Member

    598
    0
    0
    The 1911 was designed with multiple safeties , the grip safety which you ah not be engaging fully while cocking the gun, also if you slip when drawing the hammer back it can engage the half cock notch which adds another step to the process. If you draw the gun cocked and locked you engage the grip safety fully you remove the firearm from safe with your thumb and when you pull the trigger it drop all the way fully engaging the firing pin and firing a round. It was designed to be fired in this manner and firing it any other manner risks a delay in getting your first shot off. I have also been told that it was believed to be unsafe carried in the hammer down position as dropping it could possibly cause an accidental discharge. I have never seen this but all safeties are designed for cocked and locked carry.
     
  7. Todd_

    Todd_ New Member

    238
    0
    0
    Think about the forces applied. Flipping the safety requires very little downward force with the thumb and the path the thumb travels to grab the grip is in line with the safety. Think about pulling back the hammer. This requires substantially more force than flipping the safety off, and it requires your hand to exert more counter forces to compensate for the rearward and down force you are applying to the hammer, which changes the angle of the gun and takes the sights off target (most of the time). It's just more practical to flip down the safety as you grip and take aim then have to counterbalance the forces required to cock the hammer while taking aim. Just my $0.02.
     
  8. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

    12,360
    31
    48
    To me, when you lower the hammer of a 1911 down on a loaded chamber, the risk of having it slip and detonate the round makes it a stupid and dangerous act.
    And unless there is a firing pin block, the chance that the firearm gets dropped and lands on the hammer, there is also the possibility of discharge.

    When the military carries the 1911, there is no mag, the hammer is down on an UNLOADED chamber. The handgun would get charged when there was a threat pending.

    IMO, there is no reason to take a chance of a ND.
     
  9. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    1
    0
    the pistol is under more control when using the thumb safety vs. using the same thumb to cock the hammer back. especially if you have an extended beavertail grip safety. the pistol is supported way more and easier to sweep the thumb safety downwards, rather than trying to cock the hammer back with the same thumb. now if your argument goes the direction, of using the other hand also to cock the hammer back with it, yes it can be done and the pistol is much better supported and you will have increased control. now in the instance, an attack is way up close and personal, and you are using your left hand and arm to hold off someone while drawing your weapon. well now you are limited to being able to use only your right hand to draw the weapon and bring it into action. by trying to use the thumb on that right hand to cock the hammer, you lose some support of the pistol and could lose control of the pistol and possibly drop it. yes i believe the cocked and locked with the thumb safety is the better way than with the hammer down and cocking it when drawing it.
     
  10. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

    6,932
    0
    0
    I can kind of see that IF you cock it with the left thumb -
    No way i can cock & keep gun on target near as well as i can just "thumbing" the safety down -
     
  11. rigjumpr

    rigjumpr New Member

    1,004
    0
    0
    This debate again:rolleyes:
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    15
    38
    Reason being is cocking the hammer with the firing hand does chanhe your grip. What you do smoothly in a stress free environmemt is extremely difficult if not impossible to do under life and death stress.

    Its pithy to say that and if you havent been in a position where someone is doing their level best from 6feet away or less to kill you its hard to convey the difference.

    Cocking a hammer with the off hand is actually thecorrect way to do it.

    Anyway you can do what you want its your life your putting at risk training with a flawed method. Long asyour not teaching anyone else to do it its just yourself your risking and thats your business. :)
     
  13. levelcross

    levelcross New Member

    984
    0
    0
    That says it all.
     
  14. Bear304inc

    Bear304inc New Member

    1,027
    0
    0
    I carry a USP .40 variant 1, sa/da manual safety and decocker in condition 2, only have to thumb down the safety ( which is a natural movement and doesn't comprimise grip or target sight) and fire from da. Now if my gun were sao I would definitely carry cocked and locked.
     
  15. Duck4Glocks

    Duck4Glocks New Member

    175
    0
    0
    I carry my Glock with a round in the chamber. No safety except for the trigger safety which isn't really a safety. I know many people who carry their Springfield XDs and glocks like this.
     
  16. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

    12,360
    31
    48
    different platform with different safety blocks.
    (This is the 1911 forum)
     
  17. bartwatkins

    bartwatkins Member

    512
    0
    16
    "I would strongly agree that a single action gun without a firing pin block (safety) should not be carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. Without the block in place, the hammer movement could cause the gun to fire even the trigger wasn’t pulled."
    Col Jeff Cooper
     
  18. utf59

    utf59 New Member

    676
    0
    0
    To me, using the thumb of the firing hand (assuming that's the one you're using) requires two movements: 1) cock hammer 2) place thumb on grip. Because I don't want to leave my thumb on the hammer when I pull the trigger.

    The act of flipping the safety off places my thumb right where I want it for firing. Though If you prefer a grip with your thumb curled down, you're looking at two movements either way.
     
  19. chucksolo69

    chucksolo69 New Member

    147
    0
    0
    Many, many people have carried the 1911 "cocked and locked." Maybe Hoss just has his ol' hoglegs in mind. Some people just find carrying "cocked and locked" scary. I myself carry my 1911's "cocked and locked" while hunting. I sometimes carry my CZ 75B and Browning Hi-Power this way. I actually hate shooting an auto in DA mode. Hence the reason I don't care for ANY striker fired pistol.
     
  20. mayscat44

    mayscat44 New Member

    86
    0
    0
    Wow gang, that's the things I needed to hear. You have convinced me that "hammer down" is in fact the more dangerous way to go. I am going cocked and locked from this point on. Many GOOD comments. Not too proud to learn something. I just needed it explained in detail, and that you did.Thanks again.