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:D

So, I can safely say that I have never owned/shot/ or even SEEN a 1911 style handgun. I know, I know, here come the gasps!

So, I was wondering.. why a 1911? I searched many forums and scoured the internet for the reason, but I can't seem to find any reason that I wouldn't say purchase a Sig P220 over a Kimber 1911.

I have actually noticed that there are quite a few posts out there with people having ISSUES with 1911. Not sure if it's just fanboys in a pack or what?

Please educate me so that I too many see what this thrill is.:confused:

Thank you in advance!:)
 

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2 great things came from 1911 :
Ronald Reagan and the 1911 Colt format pistol.

Both live on as legends !

The 1911 format pistol VS a SIG is a PC vs. MAC type arguement.

The 1911 is a proven, reliable format pistol. The constant is the design...not the quality between manufacturers. All MAY work and most need tweeking for absolute reliability. The consistant characteristics are they are single action, safe to carry cocked and locked (as designed), you MUST depress the grip safety gripping the pistol to fire and then press the safety down to fire.
The trigger pull is always the same and consistant...no double action and then single action like a SIG....nor a long cocking and striker fire like a Glock.
The clean, consistant trigger pull of the 1911 leads to consistant accuracy, based upon the shooting experience of the operator.
Nothing to decock to render safe to re-holster like a SIG. Just thumb the manual safety up and as it is holstered, removing your hand from the frame activates the grip safety from the frame.
The classic 1911 is a single stack pistol taking a 7 or 8 round magazine plus one in the chamber. As a single stack pistol, it is basically flat and conceals well with a quality holster.
Classically, it is chambered in 45acp...the bench-mark round for self-defense to which most other pistol rounds are compared. At it's classic 230 grain FMJ bullet, it is a proven stopper and less likely to over penetrate or bounce.
1911's are not all created equal, except in controls and function. You get what you pay for ! If you spend the same price point as a SIG $ 700-800, you get a pretty reliable pistol. Spend less..tolerate more issues..spend more..it's all about quality and features.

ANY semi-auto pistol should be fired a minimum of 200 to 500 rounds before being considered broken in and reliable for carry/self-defense. Lower end 1911's may need reliability tune ups for function with all types of ammo. Triggers may need to be cleaned up for a crisp and clean pull. On the original
GI style the addition of a beaver-tail grip safety and a round commander style hammer will eliminate hammer bite on your shooting hand from firing and
spread the recoil our better.
Best recommendation is have a friend let you shoot one...and see what you think. Recoil is manageable and custom features range from ambi safeties to better sights to suit your specific needs. The 1911 is a building platform that allows for many add-on creature features to suit your changing style or wants.
They are not for everybody and 45acp costs more than 9mm to shoot....but try one and see if this American classic peaks your interest !:D
 

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Oh hell...

This thread is going to garner some responses... LOL

I am going to wait a bit before I add my thoughts.

1 - I don't want to react with an outright blast of historical, combat, style, features type of post that will be too long. That might rob some people of their fun... LOL

2 - I have to get over the fact that you have never seen a 1911 before?!:eek:

How is that possible? You simply must go to a gun shop, today, and at least hold one for crying out loud. Even if you hate it, you have to at least go and feel the damn thing... LOL

JD
 

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You simply must go to a gun shop, today, and at least hold one for crying out loud. Even if you hate it, you have to at least go and feel the damn thing... LOL
Definitely! Best way I can describe it is similar to owning a Jeep.. You simply will not understand until you own one!
 

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This thread is going to garner some responses... LOL

I am going to wait a bit before I add my thoughts.

1 - I don't want to react with an outright blast of historical, combat, style, features type of post that will be too long. That might rob some people of their fun... LOL

2 - I have to get over the fact that you have never seen a 1911 before?!:eek:

How is that possible? You simply must go to a gun shop, today, and at least hold one for crying out loud. Even if you hate it, you have to at least go and feel the damn thing... LOL

JD
I have a small number of handguns that I really enjoy and love but none come close to my KimberCDP Pro Carry. That is my all around favorite CCW weapon and is the weapon of choice for my Bugout Bag. That S.O.B. will eat anything I choose to feed it. I have found that Hornady 200gr. TAP ammo is its favorite diet.
 

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1. The 1911's ergonomics are second to none. The pistol feels like an extension on the shooter's hand and arm. The controls are intuitive and well placed.

2. The simple action and trigger are easy to tune and as such, they can cheaply be made to operate very crisp and cleanly. Browning's single action is a work of pure genius.

When you pair a clean action with natural feeling ergonomics, you have a pistol that no one has been able to replicate since the 1911 was designed.

The problem, in today's market, is that 1911s are over hyped and sell for $100-$200 more than they should. This causes people to purchase low end 1911s and expect the performance of a higher end pistol out of them. This paired with the amount of skill required to hold the pistol properly causes problems. The one drawback to the 1911 is that it requires a stable platform for the action to fully utilize the blow back energy to cycle the action.

There is a learning curve that one must deal with to become proficient with a 1911. Many people overlook this, due to them being used to lighter, more modern designed pistols.

In the days before cheap digital cameras, the same similarities could be seen in photography. There were point and shoot 35mm cameras, yet their photos couldn't compare to higher end cameras that required more of the user.
 

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Definitely! Best way I can describe it is similar to owning a Jeep.. You simply will not understand until you own one!
You only own one Jeep? Is that possible? Is it possible to own one 1911 too?
 

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:D


Please educate me so that I too many see what this thrill is.:confused:

Ever get one of those questions you know what the answer is but just can't put together?

Its the closest thing to having a second p&?ker! Well, not quite but you get the idea.
 

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Its the closest thing to having a second p&?ker! Well, not quite but you get the idea.[/QUOTE]


:D :D JEEZUZ! I almost died laughing at that!

I seem to get into enough trouble with one... So I like the CZ 75 better... :eek:
 

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How is that possible? You simply must go to a gun shop, today, and at least hold one for crying out loud. Even if you hate it, you have to at least go and feel the damn thing... LOL

JD
While not a huge fan of the 1911, if you are a pistol shooter, you must have shot at least one. I find it difficult for people to reject a pistol that they haven't shot...

When you pair a clean action with natural feeling ergonomics, you have a pistol that no one has been able to replicate since the 1911 was designed.
Except the P35, which JMB designed to overcome the failings he saw in the 1911...;)

The problem, in today's market, is that 1911s are over hyped and sell for $100-$200 more than they should. This causes people to purchase low end 1911s and expect the performance of a higher end pistol out of them. This paired with the amount of skill required to hold the pistol properly causes problems. The one drawback to the 1911 is that it requires a stable platform for the action to fully utilize the blow back energy to cycle the action.
The other downside of this phenomenon is people will purchase a low end 1911, and "smith" it themselves. While I'm sure that gunsmiths love this, most people I've come across just sell it, without telling anyone what they screwed up.

There is a learning curve that one must deal with to become proficient with a 1911. Many people overlook this, due to them being used to lighter, more modern designed pistols.
I have also noticed an opposite effect. 1911 shooters, when transitioning over to DA/SA, Double Action Only, or Striker Fired, seem to forget how to manipulate a trigger...
 

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I have also noticed an opposite effect. 1911 shooters, when transitioning over to DA/SA, Double Action Only, or Striker Fired, seem to forget how to manipulate a trigger...
I can pick up SIGs, Glocks, et al, and sling lead competently. The short pull, SA trigger on the 1911 is just much more nice. The 1911 trigger more closely matches that found on a target rifle and therefore is easier to quickly deliver lead on target accurately.
 

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I can pick up SIGs, Glocks, et al, and sling lead competently. The short pull, SA trigger on the 1911 is just much more nice. The 1911 trigger more closely matches that found on a target rifle and therefore is easier to quickly deliver lead on target accurately.
Sorry 'bout that. I didn't mean to imply that is the case with all shooters. Some shooters know how to shoot well enough to actually manipulate the trigger. However, I've come across many who use the trigger on the 1911 as a crutch, and complain that GLOCKs, SIGs, et. al. are inaccurate...
 

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You only own one Jeep? Is that possible? Is it possible to own one 1911 too?
Yes, I only own one Jeep.. And if I had the money I would own one of every generation.. I love Jeeps! As far as 1911's, I think its impossible to own only one.. Unless you just can't afford it (like me).
 

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Except the P35, which JMB designed to overcome the failings he saw in the 1911...;)
Not entirely true. I just posted this in another thread - but as the notion of the Hi Power being designed because of "flaws" in the 1911, I feel the need to set the record straight"

Dillinger said:
Browning design of the HP was advanced for the time, but it was cartridge based, not based on any flaws in the 1911 design.

For those that care of the history of one of the world's most prominent gun makers:

John Browning was working on a design request, from of all people, the French Military in 1921. Browning had already sold the rights to the 1911, to Colt, at the time of the contract to the French, so he was FORCED to work around all the Patents that already existed concerning the 1911 - otherwise, it is widely thought, the French would have gotten a double stack 9mm that fit their criteria, but on the 1911 frame.

The French contract was that the weapon must hold 10 or more rounds, have all similar parts to a 1911 ( external hammer, positive safety ) but it also must have a magazine disconnect - which the 1911 did not possess. They also pretty much wanted it in a bullet weight of 8 grams, or higher, and since the .45 hadn't yet gone large capacity, the 9mm was the un-official obvious choice.

Browning designed two versions before his death in 1926, but neither went into production until after his death. Upon the release of Colt Patents on the 1911, which took place in 1928, many of the same previously developed parts of the Browning Genius were incorporated into what BECAME the production unit of 1934 put out by FN.

The Browning Hi Power is a wonderful weapon. It came from a genius, a God among men at the time when weapons were becoming the most important part of combat, but it's considered King of the Nines - not the King of all Pistols.

Take apart an original 1911 and a 1935 production Hi Power and look at how many similarities exist.

Legal issues ( patents ) & the contract request from the customer, were what drove the design of Browning's OTHER wonderchild, not any flaws or problems with his Number 1 Son! ;)
 

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I have come to the conclusion that every man should own a 1911 or at least have owned one at one time in their life.

I may be off base, but I feel that same way about owning a motorcycle, a muscle car or a sports car.

I also think every man needs an *** whipping at least once in his adult life so he knows how it feels. It gives a man perspective and if he's smart, it gives him wisdom.

To me, the most important rite of passage is to serve your Country in the Military. To put yourself on the line for love of Country, duty and honor.

All of these things to me mean getting your man card punched. I don't mean knuckle dragging stuff, I mean learning what it means to be a real man.

These days with all the politically correct nonsense, this stuff is getting lost.
 

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Except the P35, which JMB designed to overcome the failings he saw in the 1911...;)
Browning never finished the design of the HP. Instead, an engineer with FN, Dieudonné Saive, waited for the Colt's patents on the 1911 to lapse, then stole the parts from the 1911 that he couldn't come up with himself.

In addition to the the "superior" safety on the HP is a crappy design and kills any hope of having a decent trigger.

Hammer bite is a more serious problem with the HPs that it has ever been on the 1911s.
 

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So, why a 1911?

You know, there was a time I asked that same question. I was young, and I had seen WAY too many movies where the action guys carried the hi-caps like the Beretta 92-F ( Hell, Martin Riggs in Lethal Weapon 1 probably doubled their US sales numbers ). Then John McClane was shooting bad guys left in right in Die Hard.

When the FBI went to the Sig P-228 in .40cal was about the time I was old enough to buy my first handgun. The Beretta was out with their model 96, in .40 cal, at the time as well.

The .40 cal was THE hot round at the time. The supposed stopping power of the .45 AND the hi-cap ability of the 9mm. I mean, C’mon! How could all those law enforcement units, the FBI and all that hot press be wrong?!

I bought a brand new Sig P-229, in .40 cal, and I practiced with it, I carried it, I THOUGHT it was the perfect gun. That gun served me well. I never had any problems. I had a trigger job done, I added night sights, I changed out the barrel for a drop in one that was about ½” longer, Magna-ported, and tight chambered for better accuracy.

A few years later I started working with a guy, Nick B, who was a former sniper in Vietnam. The guy had actually met, face to face, Chuck Mahwhinney and Roy Chandler. I had always been interested in sniping and long range shooting, so we spent many, MANY hours talking field conditions, rounds, stalking, everything involved with “the hunt”

We used to go shooting a lot too. Pistol shooting was convenient; the town we were working in had an indoor range less than 10 minutes from the office. Twice a week we would go sometimes.

Nick used to shoot IPSC, and as such he had a nice 1911. We used to bet, tightest 3 round group, tightest full mag, headshot-hostage target at 50 feet indoors. The guy used to kick my ***. And he did it A lot.

So, one range session Nick breaks out (2) 1911’s. One was his custom and one was a standard Colt. He “made” me put 50 rounds through it, with him watching over my shoulder and showing/explaining a few things. Then he loaded two mags, one with 9 rounds for my Sig and one with 8+1 for the Colt. Then he said to shoot two targets at 15 yards. If my Sig group was tighter, he would give me $100, which he laid on the shooting table, and if the Colt group was tighter, I had to do some research on the 1911; it’s creator and give him a “book report” of what I thought of the weapon.

A few weeks later I had read all about John Browning, I had read the reports of guys like Les Baer, Dave Lauck and the fact that many, many Texas Rangers still used the weapon even though their were “allowed” to carry other, higher capacity weapons. I learned that FBI HRT Team members were each issued (2) 1911 pistols that were created for them, by the Master Armorers of the FBI when they were issued their first patch. I learned that Delta Operators also carried 1911’s – of which they had the right to choose anything they wanted. I read Eric Lee Haney’s accounts, a Plank Holder in DELTA, on how the 1911 was THE pistol to own and how no matter where he was in the world, he could tell another Operator when he met one by the callous’ they developed from years of shooting the 1911.

I ordered my first 1911 about 3 weeks after finishing Haney’s book. I have never carried another weapon since receiving my 1911.

I now have 6 of them. And I have shot, probably, close to 50 other models. I have yet, since that day of “awakening”, been able to figure out why anyone WOULDN’T love a 1911.

It is, hands down, the finest pistol design to ever grace the planet. Every modern auto loading pistol has a lineage that can be traced back to John Browning’s initial design.

If you don’t at least give yourself a chance to shoot a good one, and experience the mastery that is the 1911, then it’s something that just can’t be explained by someone on the internetz I am afraid….

JD
 

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You said a mouthful JD. There are some things in life that just have to be experienced.
 

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Delta Operators can carry anything they want. After passing selection, they're give a $3000 stipend to purchase and equip their sidearm. Many of them choose tuned 1911s for their reliability, accuracy and ease of maintenance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Wow, thanks for all the well thought out replies. Though I think at some point I was downgraded on my man card? I wept a little since I don't have to hold it in anymore due to my points reduction ;)

I will go up to the shop soon and check out a 1911, though before I go I don't want to look like a complete nimrod.

Is there any specific brand or different handling method for a 1911 from your standard SIG/GLOCK/WALTHER/S&W that I ought to know about so that when they hand me the weapon I know what to look for in a good one?

Thanks again in advance!

PS: I'm not sure if I want to have a second.. you know what.. I have my HANDS FULL with the one I already have if you know what I mean. :eek:

PPS: I don't do Jeeps or Motorcycles, every time I go to buy a bike it seems one of my friends or coworkers get in bad wrecks or killed on one, plus it's too short of a season in MA.
 
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