Who's in possession?

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by invicta8926, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. invicta8926

    invicta8926 New Member

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    If you are the driver of a vehicle and ownerof a firearm that is located between the passenger seat and center console and you are pulled over, is that firearm considered to be in th passengers possession?
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Ultimately, it is up to a court to decide. In my long ago LEO days (No, Wyatt Earp was NOT a contemporary of mine) the rule of thumb we used was in the immediate area of, and under the control of.

    A gun located within 2 inches of the passenger's butt, between them and the armrest of the console, would be considered under their control, and thereby in their possession.


    However, I would have to look at the entire situation and make a judgment call as to whether the driver would reasonably be expected to know what was in his car, again, a couple of inches away.

    You may make a good case that I would not be expected to know what someone was carrying concealed, or what the guy sitting directly behind me was doing- frankly, if the situation smells bad, everyone goes for a ride, and the DA and judge will sort it out. Passenger goes for possession, driver for constructive possession.

    Above is PURELY an opinion, statute and case law vary place to place, your mileage may vary, void when prohibited or taxed, side effects may include scrofula and halitosis.
     

  3. Blueguns

    Blueguns New Member

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    Depends on where you live. Make sure you and your passenger have all the correct permits etc.
     
  4. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    IANAL, but the driver of a car is generally considered a

    "responsible party". IME, if the pistol is within reach of

    the driver, he will probably be considered to be the person

    in control of it.

    SO, you own the car, and the gun? Why would the passenger

    even be involved? In a traffic stop, the LEO uses

    personal discretion to decide who is "in possession" of

    what, and if it becomes a court case, generally, the best lawyer

    wins. But it will be hard to deny the driver is the gun owner,

    under these circumstances.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  5. Old_Crow

    Old_Crow New Member

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    If you have a CWP or a CCP it's best to lock your gun in the trunk if you carry it between the seats, until everyone is our of the car. As a permit holder you are responsible for access to the gun. If you drive a truck locking the gun in a toolbox is just as effective as locking it in the trunk. If you own guns and don't have a toolbox on your truck, thats your choice and your problem.
     
  6. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    If you gotta ask, then you need to talk to a LOCAL 2A attorney. How much trouble would it be to move it to an under steering column holster or put it in the door map pocket.
     
  7. invicta8926

    invicta8926 New Member

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    Unfortunately I can't do either in my vehicle.
     
  8. invicta8926

    invicta8926 New Member

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    I am wondering because my wife doesn't have a ccp but I do. I usually keep the firearm between the passenger seat and the center console.
     
  9. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    If you have a CCL and you explain that it is yours then you will "should" be fine.

    If you were in illegal possession and were pulled over,and you both denied ownership then both of you would be arrested and the courts would sort it out.

    Just dont forget it in the vehicle and let your wife take off with it
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  10. gollygee

    gollygee New Member

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    Could depend on your state's laws. In Texas, a person can keep a handgun in their vehicle without a carry license as long as it is concealed. So here, which of you owned it wouldn't be in question as long as you both could legally own a handgun.
     
  11. phildenton

    phildenton New Member

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    Exactly what i was gonna say
     
  12. DoyleTheDog

    DoyleTheDog New Member

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    The gun should be fine in the console as long as it's your gun and you are operating the vehicle. At least that's how we do things in Texas.
     
  13. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Is what you're saying that you are afraid that even though both

    you and your wife insist it's yours, somebody may try to claim it's hers?


    Possible, IMO, but not probable. If there were a dispute between

    the driver and a passenger, possibly, a LEO might attempt to

    assign possession.
     
  14. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    First of all, the Invicta 8926 is a very solid timepiece, kudos on the good tatse.

    Second, I would take heed of the first responder's comments and experience. Also talk to your local sheriff's office and find out what they'd do in such a situation.
     
  15. invicta8926

    invicta8926 New Member

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    Thank you, it was my favorite timepiece until I broke the glass. I have yet to replace it but miss it dearly.
     
  16. invicta8926

    invicta8926 New Member

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    Exactly. I am curious that a LEO may say because of the location of the firearm that it belongs to my wife. I don't need those problems.
     
  17. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Generally speaking, in the absence of compelling information to the contrary, the owner who is also the driver has ultimate care, custody and control of the vehicle and the contents. If the driver denies ownership of a particular piece of property that is clearly closer to the passenger, the passenger "probably" now owns it. Be it drugs, alcohol, guns, etc.
     
  18. invicta8926

    invicta8926 New Member

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  19. MarkAD

    MarkAD New Member

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    The lack of knowledge by so many if you is disturbing, espically in light of the resoruces avaialble to you.
    The answer is simple it depends where you live. For exanple in Washington state a CCW holder can have the pistol in the cabin of the car and it is fine and legal.
    So check the local laws. Especaily when traveling.
     
  20. DX1

    DX1 New Member

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    Agree. Depends entirely on the state. In Massachusetts, for example, the weapon must be "under control" of a person with a license to carry and that means not accessible to anyone else so a gun anywhere in the car and not locked up is illegal even if it is unloaded.