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Pretty much use my DE357 the same way. an expensive range toy, now that I'm in PA. I did use it in NY for hunting, as mine is the 4 barrel set, but for the weight of it, and the size, the few times i did carry it, with the 6 inch barrel, was in cold weather in a shoulder rig.

It's not exactly a discrete belt CCW choice.
jeeeesh, Kfox, there isn't anything that's discrete about a Desert Eagle! :D
 
jeeeesh, Kfox, there isn't anything that's discrete about a Desert Eagle! :D
Lol. Including the price. Dad and I pooled our tax refunds in 1999 to pick it up, used, LNIB, for $1,500. We net the owner at the courthouse, and had it added to both permits at that point.

Can't do that anymore, as any pistol that is Semi Auto is now classed as an "AW" if it weighs more than 40 oz. loaded, and all transfers have to go through an FFL, and "AW"s are non transferable now in that state.
 
Lol. Including the price. Dad and I pooled our tax refunds in 1999 to pick it up, used, LNIB, for $1,500. We net the owner at the courthouse, and had it added to both permits at that point.

Can't do that anymore, as any pistol that is Semi Auto is now classed as an "AW" if it weighs more than 40 oz. loaded, and all transfers have to go through an FFL, and "AW"s are non transferable now in that state.
back in about 1988, or 1989, my friend who owned a gun store, got in a DE in 41 Magnum. i came real close to buying it, but passed on it. wished now i had, since they discontinued the 41 Mag. version years ago. in some ways, i'd like to have the DE in a 44 Magnum, but if i were going to spend that kind of money on a gun for just range use, i'd go ahead and spend the extra, and get a Wildey in 45 Rem. Mag instead.
 
Lately, I've been carrying my Ruger SP101 .357 mag snub. It conceals well and it definitely has the stopping power. Concerned about the round count though.
 

Attachments

Only on game larger than humans maybe. But the 44 Mag with the standard 240 gr load is NOT a good SD gun. It does limited damage to the person (straight pass through) and WAY over penetrates the surroundings.
The 125 gr JHP 357 Mag is still the best load to use for SD. All others are compared to them. What ever you do DO NOT use the 158 gr loads even in JHP. Many will not expand and the few that do will way over penetrate. :(
Just curious Jim, what would you advise as a SD load for a .38 Special, that is not +P rated? Mainly grain weight, as I tend to use JHP, currently 158 grain Hornady American Gunner.

just want your take on it is all.

Thanks.
 
The proliferation of semiautomatic handguns - bought even by those with zero prior handgun experience, is proof that marketing works, and also proof that government overreach magnifies marketing that much more!

MOST people do NOT need a high capacity semiautomatic pistol for home defense, or even carry defense considering the fact that MOST people will never be involved in a shooting situation, and if they are, they likely will not fire more than the number of bullets contained in a five-shot revolver.

Semiautomatic pistols are complicated...no, the "experienced" user won't agree, but still, compared to a double-action revolver they are indeed. They require a loaded magazine be inserted and a round be moved from magazine to chamber by act of retracting the slide. They then reqire some form of safety manipulation, or hammer drop, or worse still, a "live" trigger that only needs a few pounds of pressure from an errant finger, or a pen in a purse to result in a discharge of the weapon. Autopistols are also senstive to hold...weak wrists and hands cause malfunctions. Weak hands make chambering difficult, and in some cases impossible. Basically, the semiautomatic pistol is more of a professional's gun...or a serious enthusiast.

By contrast, the old-school, swing-out cylinder, 6-shot double-action revolver is stone-cold simple for even the novice. Once charged with live rounds, it will lay there waiting in complete harmony, requiring only that the user grab it and start pulling the trigger. And while many woman might have trouble with a double-action pull-through while playing at the range, under the stress of a real threat, their slender fingers will easily stroke that trigger as needed!

So it's a shame when I have people approach me asking about buying their first, and likely only-ever handgun, and they've already been told by a host of previous "experts" that they need a "nine millimeter" or a "forty," when in fact they are NOT "gun people," have no intention of being, and never will be. The LAST thing the average "newbie" needs is to be steered toward buying a Glock 19, or S&W M&P, or Sig Mk-25, or Kimber Super-Pro, Operator Custom XII Elite Spec-OPS mod - whatever!

And so, today, just as 35 years ago, an ideal "initial" purchase is a 4" barrel .357 Magnum of whatever brand makes one feel fulfilled. I've owned many .357 revolvers over the years, but my current bedside piece (when it isn't something else), is a Taurus M65 stainless stoked with garden variety, American Eagle 158 grain JHP which have chrono-tested at 650 lb-ft of kinetic energy. That's some serious horsepower for an 82 year old cartridge! And, as others have so well pointed out, it needs nothing more than to be picked up and start stroking the trigger. As an added bonus, one can shoot .38 Special loads during learning and practice.
 
Just curious Jim, what would you advise as a SD load for a .38 Special, that is not +P rated? Mainly grain weight, as I tend to use JHP, currently 158 grain Hornady American Gunner.

just want your take on it is all.

Thanks.
There is several good std velocity 38 loads out there for sd. Your choice is as good as any. BUT lately I have went BACK to what I learned early on in my LE experience and I have been recommending to those, mostly women, simply use 148 gr wad cutters for SD. Mainly becasue they are recoil sensitive and most carry the smaller and lighter guns. The 'hole' the wad cutters make is very effective in promoting rapid blood loss, and that is the goal is it not???;) I will say that I would not have a problem using +p ammo in 38's not rated for them in a very limited basis, fire one cyl to familiarize yourself with then and check POI and then carry them. :)
 
The proliferation of semiautomatic handguns - bought even by those with zero prior handgun experience, is proof that marketing works, and also proof that government overreach magnifies marketing that much more!

MOST people do NOT need a high capacity semiautomatic pistol for home defense, or even carry defense considering the fact that MOST people will never be involved in a shooting situation, and if they are, they likely will not fire more than the number of bullets contained in a five-shot revolver.

Semiautomatic pistols are complicated...no, the "experienced" user won't agree, but still, compared to a double-action revolver they are indeed. They require a loaded magazine be inserted and a round be moved from magazine to chamber by act of retracting the slide. They then reqire some form of safety manipulation, or hammer drop, or worse still, a "live" trigger that only needs a few pounds of pressure from an errant finger, or a pen in a purse to result in a discharge of the weapon. Autopistols are also senstive to hold...weak wrists and hands cause malfunctions. Weak hands make chambering difficult, and in some cases impossible. Basically, the semiautomatic pistol is more of a professional's gun...or a serious enthusiast.

By contrast, the old-school, swing-out cylinder, 6-shot double-action revolver is stone-cold simple for even the novice. Once charged with live rounds, it will lay there waiting in complete harmony, requiring only that the user grab it and start pulling the trigger. And while many woman might have trouble with a double-action pull-through while playing at the range, under the stress of a real threat, their slender fingers will easily stroke that trigger as needed!

So it's a shame when I have people approach me asking about buying their first, and likely only-ever handgun, and they've already been told by a host of previous "experts" that they need a "nine millimeter" or a "forty," when in fact they are NOT "gun people," have no intention of being, and never will be. The LAST thing the average "newbie" needs is to be steered toward buying a Glock 19, or S&W M&P, or Sig Mk-25, or Kimber Super-Pro, Operator Custom XII Elite Spec-OPS mod - whatever!

And so, today, just as 35 years ago, an ideal "initial" purchase is a 4" barrel .357 Magnum of whatever brand makes one feel fulfilled. I've owned many .357 revolvers over the years, but my current bedside piece (when it isn't something else), is a Taurus M65 stainless stoked with garden variety, American Eagle 158 grain JHP which have chrono-tested at 650 lb-ft of kinetic energy. That's some serious horsepower for an 82 year old cartridge! And, as others have so well pointed out, it needs nothing more than to be picked up and start stroking the trigger. As an added bonus, one can shoot .38 Special loads during learning and practice.
I have been teaching and preaching this for MANY years. (30+ years) The learning curve for the semi-auto is 5 to 10 times that of the DA revolver which requires a commitment, of time and money, VERY FEW are willing to make. I agree with you 95%, the only exception is your choice of ammo for SD in the 357. The 158's are a big NO NO! Stay with the 125 gr JHP's!:)
KISS, keep it simple and safe!:D
 
There is several good std velocity 38 loads out there for sd. Your choice is as good as any. BUT lately I have went BACK to what I learned early on in my LE experience and I have been recommending to those, mostly women, simply use 148 gr wad cutters for SD. Mainly becasue they are recoil sensitive and most carry the smaller and lighter guns. The 'hole' the wad cutters make is very effective in promoting rapid blood loss, and that is the goal is it not???;) I will say that I would not have a problem using +p ammo in 38's not rated for them in a very limited basis, fire one cyl to familiarize yourself with then and check POI and then carry them. :)
Thanks Jim.

I was considering sitting down with the daughter this weekend, and hand loading some wadcutters, just to show her how to set up the press I gave her, so that works out good. She currently has one of my old Charter Arms .38s as her HD pistol, and I figured I'd ask as I have my grandfather's Official Police and the Rossi 94 here, but not +P rated.

Just wanted a good idea of what to run in them for SD and HD is all.

Thanks again.
 
Thanks Jim.

I was considering sitting down with the daughter this weekend, and hand loading some wadcutters, just to show her how to set up the press I gave her, so that works out good. She currently has one of my old Charter Arms .38s as her HD pistol, and I figured I'd ask as I have my grandfather's Official Police and the Rossi 94 here, but not +P rated.

Just wanted a good idea of what to run in them for SD and HD is all.

Thanks again.
You are welcome. and I might add something the 'old timers' swear by! That is loading the hollow base wad cutters BACK WARD. This IS THE ULTIMATE HOLLOW POINT!
I have loaded them that way for MANY years at varying velocities and tested same. The only problem is they do not penetrate very well, but they make a BIG hole! They are strictly a close range load and the velocity need to be less than 1000 fps or they will key hole right out of the bbl. I actually would carry them as a duty load when assigned to work in a crowed environment (sporting events, dances, concerts and etc). Because I did want to shot several people in the crowd (over penetration) with the full power 357 loads.:)
 
We use to joke about putting mercurichrome in the reverse loaded hollow bases, for targets we were not especially mad at.
As to carry I'm not sure if I posted here before, and didn't reread.
I have just about decided to settle on the Colt Lawman MkIII .357 snub nose. I carry the Kimber Ultra Carry too as it is really light or about the same as the Colt.
 
You are welcome. and I might add something the 'old timers' swear by! That is loading the hollow base wad cutters BACK WARD. This IS THE ULTIMATE HOLLOW POINT!
I have loaded them that way for MANY years at varying velocities and tested same. The only problem is they do not penetrate very well, but they make a BIG hole! They are strictly a close range load and the velocity need to be less than 1000 fps or they will key hole right out of the bbl. I actually would carry them as a duty load when assigned to work in a crowed environment (sporting events, dances, concerts and etc). Because I did want to shot several people in the crowd (over penetration) with the full power 357 loads.:)
I'll have to load some for testing, and try them out at the farm next week. The guy who owns the place makes his.own ballistic gel blocks, for testing SD loads.

Got to have something to do, as Sturgis is off the table this year. Mrssrd up the right knee wprse than I thought. Broke my patella when I dropped the bike, so no long runs for at least another month.
 
I'll have to load some for testing, and try them out at the farm next week. The guy who owns the place makes his.own ballistic gel blocks, for testing SD loads.

Got to have something to do, as Sturgis is off the table this year. Mrssrd up the right knee wprse than I thought. Broke my patella when I dropped the bike, so no long runs for at least another month.[/QUOT

Awesome, keep us informed what results you get. Are you going to c-graph them while testing?:)
 
Here's my chiappa Rhino 40ds in .357 mag. When I was considering an EDC, I originally had single & double stack 9's. However, the .357's power drew me in and the rhino made it easier to get follow up shots on target. Its dimensions are equivalent to a 1911.

The reason I went for the 4" was because I didn't want the drastic velocity drop after you get below 3". I couldn't justify buying a snub nose over a similar sized auto.

 
About half the time, I carry a Ruger GP100 5" or a Chiappa White Rhino 5" both in .357 with a Ruger LCP backup.

The rest of the time, it is a Glock 17 9mm, two extra magazines and a Charter Arms Pitbull stainless in 9mm.
 
There was a time when the prevailing wind was a .38 was no good for home defense. I remember the .40 coming out in popularity, Law Enforcement was losing the revolver for the automatic, stopping power was the new religion. The civilian in turn started buying auto's in force. Hell even Dirty Harry jumped on board with the .44 auto mag which could "remove the fingerprints". I've gone down to my local gun stores and there are a hundred auto's and maybe five revolvers.

All of that said, the .38 can still hurt someone to death. If you keep it by your bed, or carry it, it's still going to put the average punk willing to hurt you or your family down. My wife can pick up a revolver and extinguish a threat safer and easier than with my .45 auto.

I'm a revolver fan... .357, or .38.... my groups are cleaner, my wife's confidence is higher, and my house is safer for it. Trading that for something a little less for popularity just isn't prudent for me.
 
Groo here
Remember , the 357 is a "fighting" round not a "mouse" gun [9mm /38spec smaller]
The most important shot is the first one.
Fighting rounds seldom need more then one solid hit to "stop"[aka make bad man reconceder his actions.
And as in most things," he who hits first wins"
 
Groo here
Remember , the 357 is a "fighting" round not a "mouse" gun [9mm /38spec smaller]
The most important shot is the first one.
Fighting rounds seldom need more then one solid hit to "stop"[aka make bad man reconceder his actions.
And as in most things," he who hits first wins"
so what is the guarantee that you even hit the bad guy with the first round?

and if you look at history, the 38 Spl. was carried by police officers for many years as well as even in the military with acceptable results.

and the 9mm, along with the 38 Spl. using modern self defense ammo is very effective at putting bad guys down.

and finally, what exactly is a "fighting round" and what defines a round as being a "fighting round" ??? :confused:
 
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