Who can pick up a gun from an FFL?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by PeteZaHut, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. PeteZaHut

    PeteZaHut New Member

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    I sent my gun off to get some work done, and it is being mailed back to my shooting range for me. I am out of town for a few weeks, so I won't be able to pick it up. Will they let one of my family members pick up the gun since it's not actually being purchased? It's in VA, so the gun is not registered to anyone anyway.
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Pete- you are not going to like this-

    If you sent it for repair, and that gun (or a replacement gun) is being returned to YOU- no transfer takes place. No 4473, no background check. If ANYONE else picks it up, that is considered a transfer, and by the LETTER of the law, would be treated like that person was buying it.

    Sorry-
     

  3. NickySantoro

    NickySantoro New Member

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    OP,
    With all due respect to the mod, I doubt it makes any difference as long as the package is opened by YOU and YOU ONLY. I promise not to tell.
     
  4. rigjumpr

    rigjumpr New Member

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    not the point. as required by the law the range, store or gunsmith will only release the firearm to the owner.


    Just a note, although we all know that there is an element of disrespect for the law/s but, as a forum we try not to suggest anything that may sound as if we as a group are encouraging such actions.
    Thank you for understanding my views <Rig>
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    in the future just mail it direct.

    you as the owner can send a firearm to a ffl for repair or sale. the ffl can mail a firearm that was repaired back to you. rifles and shotguns can go by any mail service and must be insured. handguns cannot be mailed through the post office. it is wise to include a copy of the reciever's ffl in the package with the firearm.

    different shippers have slightly different policies regarding mailing firearms.

    mailing a handgun in seperate packages and marking it "machine parts" through the post office will land you in trouble. there is no legal way for an individual to ship a handgun through the post office regardless of internet myth.
     
  6. PeteZaHut

    PeteZaHut New Member

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    Well my mom originally purchased the gun, so I guess technically she's the owner. Will that make a difference?
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    If YOU took it to the range, and their ffl sent it in, they will have listed it in their "bound book" as coming from you. They need to return it to whoever gave it to them.

    A FFL has to maintain a record book of all guns acquired and disposed of. A gun deposited for repair, and returned to same person is not a transfer. Returned to someone else, it is a transfer.

    This is spelled out in Federal law- 18 US Code, Section 922. For you to ask a FFL to violate the law under which they are licensed is asking them to put their license at risk, along with criminal penalties. And yes, you better believe the ATF goes by the letter of the law. Try writing KC instead of Kansas City on a 4473.
     
  8. PeteZaHut

    PeteZaHut New Member

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    I sent it directly to the shop, not through my local ffl.
     
  9. wjnfirearms

    wjnfirearms New Member

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    Listen to c3. He's telling you factually. Even if it went directly to the manufacturer, it still has to go back through an FFL.

    The rules for shipping are spelled out by BATFE. Firearms must be declared and shipping must go through a hub location (the UPS depot, not an UPS store). The USPS wil not ship declared firearms from anyone but a dealer. Shipping undeclared firearms through the USPS is illegal. Postal service form 1508 has to be filled out by the shipper at the time of mailing. Only dealers may use form 1508. I know I'm not mistaken on this. It was spelled out quite clearly for us at a meeting for local dealers where BATFE and our state police were in attandance to go over dealer issues and was a major topic of discussion.
     
  10. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Being an Weapon Repair Shop whether the factory or an individual's shop they are or should be licensed by the ATF. And by Federal Law they must post the weapon coming in for repair in their Fed Books. Then signs it back out of his book to the receiving location and person who sent the weapon in for repair. And in your case to your local shooting range to you. I know this is not the answer that you wanted but that is the way it is, as inconvenient as it is. I certainly would not release it to anyone but the person who sent it to the FFL Repair Shop for repair.

    Sorry for the bad news!
    Hope everything works out for you!:)

    03
     
  11. PeteZaHut

    PeteZaHut New Member

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    Oh, I guess it doesn't really matter because I'm not going to get to see it until I get home anyway. I hope my range doesn't get pissy about having to hold it there for a couple weeks. They shouldn't, as much money as I've spent there!
     
  12. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    This is contrary to my experience. And I'm doubtful that the manufacturers would be doing it "unknowingly "

    I've had 3 pistols shipped to my front door from different manufacturers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  13. PeteZaHut

    PeteZaHut New Member

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    haha you may want to delete that post before the ATF kicks in your doors
     
  14. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    I'm not deleting anything. I haven't broken any laws.

    Don't just take everything you're told on a forum as the letter of the law. Learn to research a little for yourself.
     
  15. gunnut07

    gunnut07 New Member

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    I sent a pistol back to the factory in a different state and they sent it right back to me. It came from them directly back to my door. If you are sending it to an ffl they can ship it directly back to you. There is no need for it to go through any ffl at all. That is unless you live in a commie state. But, you said va last time I looked they are relaxing gun laws there.

    Why would you have to go through an ffl to get a firearm you already own and did the 4473 on? Some people need to learn a little bit before punching the keys.

    beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1203241
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  16. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Ok folks- here is the straight word- Federal law- Titile 18 US Code, Section 922. on shipping a firearm. It does NOT apply to Antiques (made in 1898 or ealier, or a muzzleloader)

    a) It shall be unlawful -
    (1) for any person -
    (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
    licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing,
    manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such
    business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in
    interstate or foreign commerce; or
    (B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to
    engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
    ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship,
    transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign
    commerce;
    (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector
    licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or
    transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any
    person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
    licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that -
    (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to
    preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed
    dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or
    replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from
    whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to
    preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in
    compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed
    importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
    collector
    ;


    Translation in English- I have a Remington Rifle. I can send it to Remington for repair (they are a FFL) I can do that directly- and they can return it to me- directly (or send me a replacement). NO TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP took place. If I send it, and it is to be returned to anyone else, THEN it goes thru a FFL on return.

    A private citizen CAN mail a rifle or shotgun. Must be unloaded, and if being transferred across a state line, must go TO a FFL. HANDGUNS may not be mailed except by Dealers and Manufacturers- they must file the form 1508 with Post Office. This is spelled out in the USPS Domestic Mail Manual.
    432.1 General
    The following conditions apply:
    a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
    b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.
    c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.
    d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.


    One circumstance where ownership of a firearm CAN be transferred across a state line WITHOUT going to an FFL is inheritance. The EXECUTOR of the estate can ship directly to the recipient IF it is legal for recipient to possess in their state.

    I am going hunting in Montana- but live in VA. I CAN mail my rifle to MYSELF- Big Sky Lodge, Tree Stump Montana- HOLD FOR GUEST C3SHOOTER. Again, ownership is not being transferred.

    There ARE state laws that can be more restrictive (NY requires that handguns must be shipped into NY from a FFL to a FFL).
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  17. rigjumpr

    rigjumpr New Member

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    I think thats check mate, game set and match to c3.........next
     
  18. FFL01user

    FFL01user New Member

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    Curious as to why you had it returned to a gun range instead of directly to yourself in the first place...
     
  19. PeteZaHut

    PeteZaHut New Member

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    haha I was asking myself the same thing. I guess I read the part about guns having to be shipped through an FFL and didn't read long enough to see the exceptions.