Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by whirley, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. whirley

    whirley New Member

    I have a single shot model 219 Savage in 30/30 caliber. I think that a lead bullet with black powder would give me a good load for turkeys, and just carrying around the woods. Where can I get information for a suitable load?
  2. 1hole

    1hole New Member

    The lead bullet idea is valid. The black powder is a lot more questionable due to powder fouling if nothing else. I know of no such data source.

  3. TXnorton

    TXnorton New Member

    There is some belief that the .30-30 was originally loaded with Black Powder.

    However, I cannot find reference to any BP loads for the .30-30 in my Lyman's BP Handbook. My Speer reloading manual notes that the .30-30 was the first small bore cartridge loaded with smokess powder. Neither my Speer or Lyman (smokless reloading) manuals make any mention of the .30-30 as a BP Cartridge (as they do for the .45-70 for example).

    I shoot BP cartridges in my .45-70 (Sharps 1874 replica ) and my .45 Colt (Peacemaker replica), and I suppose a BP .30-30 could be done, but I am not sure why you would want to.

    I am not recommending that you do this, but if you do try it, be very careful and note the following:

    BP cartridges generally require a softer (pure lead) bullet with special BP lubes (such as SPG). Harder alloy lead bullets which are designed for higher velocity smokeless cartridges may not expand at the base enough to make the "seal" with the rifling as will the softer BP lead bullets. Conventional lead bullets will also not be lubed with the BP specific lube that helps soften and reduce the inevitable BP fouling build-up.

    You cannot leave any "air-space" in the cartridge. With any BP load the bullet must slightly compress the powder when seated.

    Again, I am not recommending that you proceed with this idea.
  4. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    The 30-30 was never loaded with BP. The "-30" nomenclature was used just because it was commonly understood. A reduced load of an appropriate smokeless powder would fill the bill.
  5. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

    I do believe robo is right here. The .30-40 Krag was the first smokeless cartridge available in sporting rifles but the .30-30 Winchester was the first smokeless cartridge specifically designed for big game hunting.

    Info at The reload bench.com
  6. JonM

    JonM Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    i will also concur the .30-30 is not a black powder cartridge. never use a propellent that the cartridge was not designed for. black powder is far less powerful a propellent than modern smokeless powder in a firearm. it is far more explosive but generates less power when used in a firearm.

    the .45-70 was a cartridge designed to use black powder its name designated a .45 caliber bullet over 70 grains of blackpowder. this generally filled the case and compressed the load. with modern loadings and powders they do not fill the .45-70 case to compressed levels to duplicate the old blackpowder performance and it is also why you have to be careful when loading for old turn of the centry firearms using modern powders and charts.

    all that being said the .30-30 is a cartridge designed to use modern powders in a small casing substituting in black powder for modern smokeless there will not be enough room in the case for a sufficient load to perform correctly and you will risk squib loads that may not propel the bullet out of the rifle with sufficient power to be useful or worse case get the bullet stuck in the barrel and fire a second behind it making your rifle into a bomb rather than a shooter.

    if your doing this to meet some state hunting requirment that requires black powder usage what they mean is use a muzzle loader not substitute the powder in a rifle cartridge.