When SHTF

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by Nighthawk63, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Nighthawk63

    Nighthawk63 New Member

    92
    0
    0
    It is easy for people to discuss what they are going to do and how they are going to survive when SHTF. The reality of it is that 30% of all people in urban area will survive where they live if SHTF. The amount of resources in correlation to the amount of people will be unbelievable. The ability for most people to protect themselves and their families and protect their resources will be about 10% and loosing them and their lives will be 90% unless they have a big group and lots of arsenal to back them up. The truth is that maybe 3% of the population of the U.S. will survive if SHTF soon. Most people who talk about this do not know how to survive the catastrophes that will come. People who live in the country and who have a exit plan and a chosen place to go to will outlast everyone especially if they have family, friends, and a group with plenty of provisions and weapons with people who have experience and training to teach those who do not know how to survive. I am sorry this is so long. I just want to be part of a group that is ready and will be there when SHTF and where I can go and help protect everyone and whatever the group has stock piled. That is why I am interested in a group that undestands that without weapons a group will not be able to survive if SHTF.
     
  2. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

    7,667
    65
    48
    63,

    You are absolutely correct. And anyone who thinks they could survive this themselves are in wonderland. It will require a military operation to survive. Requiring resources including access to food, supplies and other logistical needs. Including weapons ammunition, maintenance items, cleaning supplies, night vision, gas masks and other items. And a group who can work together as a military unit with 24-7 patrols and enough firepower to survive. I would suggest having someone on the team with LE or military combat experience. Also availability of a place for those to live out of the weather and elements when rotating duties. I do not think most have any conception of the situation should God forbid it occurs!
    As a thought! Can you imagine life without toilet paper, water and easily acquired food resources!!!!!! We will survive because we can hunt the mountains of TN. and get water from the lakes.
    03
     

  3. bkt

    bkt New Member

    6,964
    0
    0
    You're right, NightHawk. I suspect most who live in major urban areas are not preppers, however, and have little food and water stored, and most have no legal means of protecting themselves. Because they're not preppers, they have no bug-out location and no exit strategy. Major urban areas are not self-sufficient and depend on the outside entirely for food, water purification, fuel, electricity, natural gas, etc.

    SHTF scenarios tend to be localized and usually weather-related. That means the rest of the country comes to the aid of those in need. In the event of something systemic or overwhelming, those folks will be in trouble.
     
  4. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

    3,054
    0
    0
    Your concerns are my concerns. However what really bugs me with anxiety and red-hot anger is the possibility, a real, real possibility of marshall law imposed upon us.
    The FEMA camps thrown into that visual as well. I don't want to sound like John Wayne or something. But after all I've been through in life, beginning at the anus of its reality,
    and survived all that life has thrown at me, I will at the agile and athletic age of 65 go out with a blast. I will be no one's sheep to be sheared. Sorry about the outrage.
    :mad:
     
  5. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

    4,269
    22
    48
    If a major nation/worldwide SHTF situation does happen no one knows the out come. The one fact would be that a very large number would most likely die from lack of water and violent chaos. Those that promote larger armed camps could have the answer but only if there was no military response(like Martial law) as then the military would easily find them and round them up. There is no totally right answer we can all only do what we think is right for us (and that we have the ability to do).
     
  6. Jim1611

    Jim1611 New Member

    700
    0
    0
    I think I'd rather take my chances in some remote region of Alaska, if that were an option.
     
  7. krisko09

    krisko09 New Member

    585
    0
    0
    Agreed completely. An area where you can get an abundance of fresh water and where wildlife is bountiful, yet humans are few and far between. A group of preppers who have some common sense, combined with a little military experience, could go a long way in a SHTF situation.

    Sent from my DROID Pro using FirearmsTalk
     
  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,538
    136
    63
    There are those of us that are too old to bug out. I live in a small off the main road city that is heavy on retirees. We have a large snowbird population that starts arriving around October and leaves by May. A late September or early October episode would leave the stores heavily stocked for the influx that would not happen. Medically dependent seniors would not last long and the rest of us would be likely targets for desperate younger people mistakenly thinking we would be an easy mark. The majority of the "able bodied" seniors are armed and a lot are combat vets. The VFW, American Legion and Marine Corp League are very active here. We will not be getting re supplied and most people are aware of it. We have a river/lake so there is water and possibly fishing. Golf courses can be converted to farms. There is also some game and feral animals that would be harvested. We will lose a lot of people but our best chance is cooperation at a community level. The longer we can hold together, the better our chances but I have to look at things pragmatically. I would have a hard time turning away starving kids. We have lived our lives and the future belongs to the young not relics like us. We can only hope to help and give them a chance.
     
  9. Mosin

    Mosin Well-Known Member

    7,369
    167
    63
    If I were too old to big out, I would invest in sandbags and the high ground...
     
  10. krisko09

    krisko09 New Member

    585
    0
    0
    I would invest in my children/grandchildren. If i'm too old too bug out, u best believe im covering my family's asses while they bug out. They can take everything, just leave me with enough food/water for 48 hrs and enough ammo to take down a platoon or 2

    Sent from my DROID Pro using FirearmsTalk
     
  11. Bigcountry02

    Bigcountry02 Coffee! If your not shaking, you need another cup Supporter

    7,232
    37
    48
  12. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    1
    0
    unless the area i live in becomes contaminated with some sort of bad stuff, i'm staying right here on my own land with my family. i have enough land i can grow some crops, raise some farm animals and hunt on if needed.
     
  13. krisko09

    krisko09 New Member

    585
    0
    0
    All i'm going to say about this, is that there are alot of soldiers out there whose names are smeared by what we THINK we know. I'm not saying i doubt that there's something really shady going on with this guy, but i AM saying that i'm getting REALLY tired of the media and "patriots" smearing the names of those who fight for them. Sometimes it takes a man like this to get things done. The "people" as a whole will never understand war. That's why they dont fight them. We do.

    Sent from my DROID Pro using FirearmsTalk
     
  14. EagleSix

    EagleSix New Member

    358
    0
    0
    Nighthawk, I'm curious where you got your figures, or how you developed them, for this post. Care to share?
     
  15. AZL

    AZL New Member

    298
    0
    0
    Opinions...much like the useful, yet stinky rectal opening are standard equipment on everyone. So, I am going to fart out a little wisdom of my own here.

    I don't agree with the OP's assessment. Number one...where did the numbers come from to quantify or backup your statements? The truth is, I don't believe a prepared person's chances of survival can even be quantified.

    Secondly...without specialized training for the entire "group", your ability to lead (assuming of course you posess the bility to do so) will be severely degraded because you will have a gaggle of amateurs who don't have the training and respect for chain of command to follow orders without bickering and argument and debate. Personally...I have neither the time or patience to try to imbibe new and critical skills into a gaggle of amateurs.

    If you want to claim the mantle of "Leader", "Grand Poobah", "Head Of The Fraternal Order Of Water Buffalo" or whatever...where did YOU obtain your specialized skills that would qualify YOU as a leader and (GOD I HATE THIS WORD) "tactical specialist"?

    On my own hook...I'd have a MUCH better chance of surviving long term without the encumberance of a gaggle of others looking to me to keep them alive, and I haven't the patience to argue with ANYONE when it comes to doing what I say when I say it. My debate would most probably end for someone with a round through the brain pan if their BS was degrading the chances for my family unit to make it through.

    I don't want to have to teach anyone how to clear a building. I did it for more years than I can count when I was an officer. SWAT, gangs-narcotics, and felony apprehension squad....THAT qualifies ME to do those things. Eben my wife who is a currently serving officer doesn't have that training, but I would certainly trust her to have my back because she HAS cleared buildings, and done the job in the real world for nearly 10 years. She hasn't learned all she knows about (we are going to do away with "tactics") techniques from the latest issue of MALL COP, or TACTICAL SPECTATOR.

    A group of un-trained yahoos will make too much noise to "operate" successfully. the bellyaching, bitching, and all around lack of discipline will make them nothing more than targets. Training is a LOT more than buying the new and shiny tacticool gadget from www.iwannabehispeedlowdrag.com. Training is a LOT more than shooting your bright shiny new M4 at the square range. Training, done right involves a lot of time, money, sweat, blood, and pain.

    There are some former military who will claim tha mantle of leader. BUT...unless you were a marine 0311 or an Army 11B who actually had your ass in the grass and had at least made Squad Leader...you will be staring at SOMEONE hoping SOMEONE will give you an order and tell you what do do.

    I grew up in the desert, and in the mountains here in Arizona, on a working horse ranch. I am very comfortable in those environments, and learned hunting, finding water, and making fire from my grandpa and great grandpa. I am the first to admit, I am NOT a combat veteran NCO who learned unit tactics in a forest or desert environment, but I KNOW those environments. What I DO know is unit operations in an urban environment, and have been on more dope house raids, and call outs than I care to remember. Yes, our goal WAS to secure the subject with no loss of life...but on more than one occaision it didn't work out that way. By the time I retired from SWAT, I had made entry team leader...so I know how hard it is to train men (women too) to be effective in that environment.

    So, I would hypothesize that you have a much better chance of making it through with just your family if you have planned appropriately. Foster good relations with a VERY select few neighbors. Tell NO one else about your preps, and be ready to defend what you have until you are down to your last round.

    But don't fall into an illusionary state thinking that you're going to be some kind of born again Rambo or Chuck Norris in the post apocalyptic world. If you are actually trying to LEARN something, and get real TRAINING...good for you, but be realistic. Your BEST chance will be staying in one place and defending that ONE place until you MUST move, and then your chances just dropped dramatically if you are a nomad. You will spend the vast majority of your time just trying not to get killed, let alone feeding yourself and your family.

    If you happen to be a part of your "A Team"...how long is it going to be until the food runs short, and faced with individual survival, the team will fall apart, and someone will kill someone else for the last MRE or box of raisins?

    There are a LOT of things that can go wrong with a single family SHTF scenario. Things can just flat go wrong. BUT...when you add a collection of egos, and testosterone filled tactical teddy wannabes...the chances for things to go wrong increases exponentially.

    Personally...I give ME a lot better chance than US.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  16. Bigcountry02

    Bigcountry02 Coffee! If your not shaking, you need another cup Supporter

    7,232
    37
    48
  17. AZL

    AZL New Member

    298
    0
    0
    BTW...I am NOT attacking or flaming the OP.

    I am using "YOU" as a general, not a specific.

    I am likewise not trying to be dickish...I am just trying to be a pragmatist, and put some things to truly think about.
     
  18. Ranger-6

    Ranger-6 New Member

    804
    0
    0
    This mess all began before Obama was voted into office, it will become finalized if he is voted in for the second term. America has a revelation coming, and many will not survive. This revelation was a long time coming, but now all the policies and laws have been written, the only thing left is disarmament of the American citizens. Then freedom and liberty will be finished.
     
  19. EagleSix

    EagleSix New Member

    358
    0
    0
    Bigcountry, not sure how this fits into the OP thread topic?!?! You know this training information has been around for a long, long, time in one form or the other. It has been used by our government and military and is a necessary part of human and secure warfare results. You are of course free to read anything into whatever conspiracy theory you like (is that where you are going with this post?). Can this information and training be used against the American people.....of course, so can all the other military training!!!
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  20. AZL

    AZL New Member

    298
    0
    0
    Truth. I also have the feeling that the vast majority of upper echelon military commanders would stage a coup rather than violate their oath to the Constitution by following illegal and imoral orders. (MacArthur not withstanding when he pulled his BS with the WWI vets).