What's up with all the new scope brands?

Discussion in 'Optics & Mounts' started by Txhillbilly, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have a Barska 3-12x40 mil dot AO on my nitro piston air rifle. It was on 2 springers prior to that and it still works fine. The nitro came with a Centerpoint that went into the trash after 10 shots. It was not even worth sending in for warranty.
    I have one of the Barska 1-4x24 mil dot scopes mounted on my wife's S&W 15/22. She has trouble with red dots like which dot am I supposed to use. The diopter adjustment takes care of which dot. Picked it up very cheap with offset one piece rings. They work on 22lr if you are shooting up to 50 or 100 yards. I would not put a Barska on a center fire. If you are shooting out to 300 yards which is a growing sport you need something a lot better. Long range 22lr (300 yards) is starting to be big business. Precision rifles with 20 moa bases are one aspect.
     
  2. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    I need to do some math but I think .22 at 300 yards would need more that a 20MOA bases for most scopes! That’s a looooong ways away with a .22. Sounds like fun though!
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020

  3. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Evidently you don't use your rifles/scopes like I do. I found out the hard way that my Nikon Monarch scope actually cost me about an hour of hunting each day because the coatings on the glass that Nikon used. It sucked in low light. Changing to a Swarovski PH scope showed me just how bad the Nikon really was.
    Try shooting long range with cheap optics,you'll find out real quick,they don't work.
     
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  4. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is on top of what the scope can do. You need a scope with a lot of adjustment. The club does not allow rimfire on the 300 yard range so I would have to shoot in the desert where some idiot on an ATV would drive through the shooting area. It has happened. They do it deliberately. I think they have built in beer holders.
     
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  5. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.

    Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.

    John Ruskin
     
  6. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am trying to figure out why when I shoot a group on a target at 100 yards with 22lr it looks more like a pattern and yet I can hit those little clay pigeon shards on the berm at 110 yards.:confused:
     
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  7. jigs-n-fixture

    jigs-n-fixture Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Back in the seventies, I bought a Japanese scope. My brothers both gave me a ration, over it. I had been into cameras for years, and new about Japanese optics.

    After WW-II they were trying hard to regain an industrial base. To do that they started a oversight organization, which tested and certified optics for export. If it wasn’t of high quality it didn’t leave Japan. If it was good enough to leave, but didn’t meet their state of the art standards it got a silver seal. Top quality stuff got a gold seal.

    The gold sealed scope they had never heard of was made by a manufacturer of camera lenses, and survey instruments, of great quality, and the manufacturer was expanding into rifle scopes.
     
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  8. tac foley

    tac foley Well-Known Member

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    So y'can't, huh?


    Darn.
     
  9. oO_Rogue_Oo

    oO_Rogue_Oo Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of times people forget that there is more to a scope than optics.

    I guess the first thing is how well it holds zero. Are the internals such that it withstands recoil (and handling) and holds zero?

    Next is the reticle. Is it accurate; are the divisions accurate?

    Next, does the scope track accurately? Does it return to zero properly? How accurate is the tracking?

    And finally optics quality.

    "And finally" LOL let us not forget magnification.

    This is the order of importance for me; for other it may be different based on the type of shooting they do. For instance for someone who never adjusts his scope just using his reticle for adjusting his point of impact; tracking is not important. But the accuracy of the reticle is.

    For a shooter that dials in each shot the reticle is less important than the accuracy of the tracking.

    Most of the time what I see is money being spent in the wrong places. People love to buy "accurate" rifles and then put cheap scopes on them. Truth is most modern riles will shoot MOA or better with the right person behind the trigger. Typically a mediocre rifle with a quality scope will out shoot a great rifle with a cheap scope.
     
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  10. microadventure

    microadventure Well-Known Member

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    is that a Rhode Island county, or a Texas county?
     
  11. harkersislandnc

    harkersislandnc Well-Known Member

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    The worst is when people buy a nice rifle, good scope and the cheapest mounts they can find.
     
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  12. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    I remember the amount of crap my dad put up with when he was the FIRST guy in our neighborhood that bought a Toyota. Everyone said they couldn't believe he was buying that Jap trash...

    My dad was not much of a sheep, he truly heard his own tune his whole life. We then got 3 of Toyotas in a row and by that time just about the whole neighborhood was driving Japanese.

    Most of today's high end electronics and a BOATLOAD of high end optics are made in places like China, Korea and others. I remember when we laughed at Korean cars... Has anyone here take a ride in a new Hyundai? Or even better, the new genesis line they spun off? Korean TVs were the stuff sold at Walmart and Target. Today LG and Samsung are leaders in the field. The Chinese make just about all the Apple components and Apple, regardless what you think of them, makes world class hardware.

    Globalism has brought a LOT of changes into the market to the advantage of us consumers.
     
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  13. tac foley

    tac foley Well-Known Member

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    My scopes are either Nightforce, or 50's era Weavers from El Paso, Tascos from Nikon Optic, or Ajack from Germany. Also a Unertl on one of my BSA's. Got others from the '30s and pre- and during WW1 though.
     
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  14. austin92

    austin92 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve never shot past 300 yards, just no where around to do so but I do have a lot of interest in pushing my self farther. I’d love to go out to 500, 800, even break 1000 one day. I understand you get what you pay for but I’ve never looked though a 2000$ scope.

    Is that nightforce the difference between making a 1200 yard shot or not? Could a 1000$ vortex make that shot? Why couldn’t a 500$ leupold do it? I just don’t understand at what distance you need to look past a certain price point. Could the 500$ scope shoot 1000 yards but not 1500?

    Obviously if money was no object I’d spend 4K on optics for my custom built 4K rifle but right now I’m think more in the <2000$ range to get started. Would a person be better off spending 500 on the rifle and 1500 on the scope, or vice-versa, or closer to 50/50? There’s a nice tikka I like for a little over 900$ and the vortex pst is around 1000$, what distance would a combo like that be capable of?
     
  15. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    austin92, a small question. What are you going to use to see those little holes at those distances? Better add in a spotting scope or camera.
     
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  16. austin92

    austin92 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve wanted a spotting scope for a while, never considered a camera
     
  17. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Many years ago, when I was a lad, the old timers all told me "If you have $150 to spend on deer rifle, buy a $50 rifle and put a $100 scope on it."

    I would have saved a lot of money, time and frustration if I had followed that advice.
     
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  18. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Austin,It isn't whether you can hit a target at long distance with a cheaper priced scope,You can. But how many times can you crank the turrets back and forth shooting short to long distances before your scope breaks or doesn't track true?
    Not only do you get better glass quality in an upper tier scope,but the erector set and springs are better,as well as the tracking ability & more adjustment range.

    Most hunting style scopes will only have 25 to 40 MOA of total elevation adjustment from top to bottom of the turret operation. Since the scope sets above the bore centerline,you will have less than half of that number of adjustment once you have sighted in the rifle.

    My lowest priced long range scopes that I use - Sightron SIII 6-24x50 have 100 MOA of total travel. Using a 20 MOA rail or ring inserts,I still have over 50 MOA of travel to adjust my scope for shooting long range.
    My 34mm tube & 40mm tube scopes have even more travel adjustment that allows me to turn the turrets to shoot out past a mile if needed. The farthest that I've shot is 1793 yards.

    I'd much rather have a high dollar optic on a cheaper rifle,than a high dollar rifle with a cheap scope. I can tailor hand load a great shooting cartridge for almost any rifle,but I can't make a cheap scope perform better than a cheap scope.
    There are many options on fantastic scopes in the $1000 - $2000 range,and past that the scopes only get better. You can also buy any of those scopes used for 50% - 70% of what they cost new for a great deal,and almost all of them will still be covered under warranty if you have any issues.
     
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  19. austin92

    austin92 Well-Known Member

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    Great info but unfortunately only raised more questions. Prior to this post I only knew of 1” and 30mm rings and didn’t know which was better and why. Now there’s 34&40mm?! I’m everyone I knows go to gun guy for questions and advice, never been stumped, now you guys make me feel ignorant lol
     
  20. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Austin,Have you been living under a rock? Larger tube scopes have been around for years. Most major brands offer scopes in 34mm tubes,while IOR Valdada has had 35mm tubes for years and also makes several models in 40mm. Leupold even has 34mm as well as 35mm models.
    Here's what a 40mm & 34mm tube scopes look on a rifle,they are big and heavy scopes.
    40mm IOR Valdada Recon-
    [​IMG]

    34mm Revic PMR428-
    [​IMG]
     
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