What's the REAL accuracy of an AK chambered in 7,62x39?300-400m!

Discussion in 'AK & SKS Discussion' started by Mark_Van_Goth, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Mark_Van_Goth

    Mark_Van_Goth New Member

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    Shooting accurately at 300-400m with an AK chambered in 7,62x39.Is it a myth or just the truth?

    The real accuracy of the AK platform is a matter of discussion since its invention-usually defined as very poor. In my opinion, a well modified AK rifle, chambered in 7,62x39, can be accurate till 400m(I mean...average usage...using iron sight till 200m (220 yards), using a optics at 200+ m).
    Assuming that building your own gun is far better than buying one(In terms of quality), you can reach a high level of accuracy by taking in consideration the following factors:

    WHAT CAN IMPROVE THE ACCURACY OF AND AK(7,62x39)?

    BARREL LENGHT
    Usually, the standard barrel length an AK is about 415mm.You should replace it with a 50-100mm longer,possibly match-grade(May sounds weird, but trust me, they exists!).The barrel is going to be heavier, but it will affect positively the accuracy

    GAS TUBE & GAS BLOCK
    The gas tube must not be too tight, the gasblock must not exert any pressure/stringing effect on the barrel.

    BOLT CARRIER
    The bolt carrier should be lightened by drilling a couple of holes in it(ZASTAVA M21 LIKE)-a lighter bolt mean less moving mass, this make the rifle cycle faster and more controllable during rapid fire(=more accurate).A rubber-bolt-stop can be also usefull.

    TRIGGER GROUP
    An high-grade aluminium trigger group is far better than the default steal one.An aluminium trigger needs 32 ms to hit the striker, the steal one 63 ms.
    Faster trigger=More accuracy(E.g. you have less time to move the rifle, the target has less time to move and let you miss it)

    TRUNNIONS
    The trunnions MUST be aligned.This is simply a MUST have for any rifle.Because you cannot expect that your rifle will be accurate, if your buttstock is not aligned with the barrel(This is critical especially in whe the receiver is milled)

    BUTTSTOCK
    It must fit your arms and face.Each shooter has a different arms length, cheek position and eye-relief point.Never underestimate the importance of a good buttstock, it is not just a matter of comfort/tactical effectiveness.I suggest you to try several buttstocks to figure out what is the one that fits you.

    SIGHTS
    Upgrade/replace the sights as soon as possible.The default sight are a very "crude" thing.Even if you stick to the iron sights, there are some very nice and improved iron sights out there-even compatible with the AK platform.

    ACCESSORIES AND AMMO
    Let's face it...a muzzle brake/muzzle-climb limiter can be very a useful accessory during rapid fire.So can be a foldable bipod(tactical foregrip).
    The ammo must no be cheap.Cheap things never offer you the best performance.


    Fell free to comment this post.I would be glad to hear you opinion(and why not....learn something new).
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
  2. bntyhntr6975

    bntyhntr6975 New Member

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    All depends on the person's definition of accuracy. I know for a fact that my (almost) stock MAK-90 will hit our 16" gong set at 650yds every time you want it to, but only most of the time at the 850 gong. Cheap steel case ammo. Standing, rifle against a deck post, not down on a bag.
    Precision accuracy? No. Ive got bolt guns for that. Adequate for what it is? Yes.
    Milk jugs at our 350 plates are no problem for it, but have never tried an actual group with it.
     

  3. spack762

    spack762 New Member

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    For me and my stick AK I have no priblen hitting man size targets out to 400 or so yards. Standing, open sites, steel ammo. With my buddys "custom" optics AK its a bit easier. Had a scoped AK once that shot better than I could at that range.
     
  4. CJx

    CJx New Member

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSuAPjw2Jgw[/ame]

    so good it must be fake :eek:
     
  5. TDS92A

    TDS92A New Member Supporter

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    Nice shootin' there "Tex"!! :D
     
  6. kaido

    kaido New Member

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  7. Mark_Van_Goth

    Mark_Van_Goth New Member

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    Eh...that's good for you if it is true.But I don't think so.At 220 yards, shooting an standard AK with standard iron sights would result in 1/5 hits(It means 1 hit, 4 misses).At 220 yards(200 m) the AK rifle it's terribly inaccurate.In addition to that,using iron sights after 200 m is simply stupid...with any rifle.
    You can talk to any veteran that used AK in combat...the majority of them will tell you that using an AK at more than 100-150m is simply stupid.I'm a former JNA and TO veteran(I used the M70 on the field and the M70 is one of the finest AKs out there), trust me:That statement is completely true!
    On the other hand....sure...you can shoot your AK at the range, with best weather condition, optimal temperatures, optimal ammo, optimal shooting position, no wind, no one that is shooting you(= no need for a cover) and you have the damn whole day to shoot 1 round.At these conditions I would believe you when you say that you can hit a man sized target at that range.I could hit a target at 1000 yards away with an AK at these conditions.
    Your post reminds me an old urban leggend that was popular within the JNA(Yugoslavian People Army):
    "With the M70 you can hit a target: at 700 m in semi-auto, at 400m in semi-auto while firing rapidly(rapid-fire) and at 200m in full-auto".
    I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYBODY SUCCEDED IN DOING THAT IN MY WHOLE LIFE!!!!
     
  8. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    Well it was found on the Internet so you know it has to be true.:rolleyes:
     
  9. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    I know it's not an AK, but I've hit a target at 200m with a C7 while on automatic.
     
  10. CJx

    CJx New Member

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    You seem to say all that like it is law that an AK at 220 law can only ever hit 1/5 hits, which is completely not true. A good shooter could do much better than 1/5 hits at only 220 yards.
     
  11. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    There are some truly amazing shooters and AK-47 rifles. Shooting a 16" gong at 650 yards and never missing with iron sights. The AK front sight will blank out a 16" target at 650 yards making this a phenomenal display of marksmanship.
    Have you ever watched scope sighted rifles score every time at 594.12 Meters. Humm?:confused:
     
  12. bntyhntr6975

    bntyhntr6975 New Member

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    Sorry to imply that I NEVER miss the gong, but i believe it to me, not the rifle, that misses. I put the ladder on 700, and hold at the bottom of the gong. Cuz yea, the sight post will block it out.
    Im confused at the sarcastic remark about it being a phenomenal display of marksmanship tho. Try the longer ranges and you'll find its not as hard as some want you to think.
     
  13. Mark_Van_Goth

    Mark_Van_Goth New Member

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    It is not a law....I'm just saying that the AK wasn't designed to be accurate and it is a fact that with iron sights an AK presents several limitations.The sights weren't designed for sharp shooting.
     
  14. Mark_Van_Goth

    Mark_Van_Goth New Member

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    You're talking about shootin at the range....see you on the battlefield, than you'll realize what you're talking about.Just answer to this question:Why the marksmans were never equipped with AK?a marksman is someone who can hit a target at 600 yards(effectively,neutralize it), so you should be able to provide marksman fire with an AK-always an at any condition.Can you do it?
     
  15. bntyhntr6975

    bntyhntr6975 New Member

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    I think we're getting off track. No where in the OP was it depicted that an accuracy assessment was for a battlefield condition only. Is an AK capable of making hits at those ranges? Yes. Can a bolt gun (of most likely a better cartridge) do it better, with more precision? Yes. Can either be 100% in a battlefield condition, with incoming fire all around you? Probly not. Im not trying to argue just to argue, was just adding in my experience with the rifle at those ranges. I dont care if you believe any of it or not, but if you happen to be in SE Ks sometime, we can go and make it happen. The proof is in the shootin.
     
  16. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    What were we trying to figure out?

    Was it the mechanical accuracy potential of an AK?

    The mechanical accuracy potential of a AK built from the ground up for accuracy, and using the most precise custom loaded ammo?

    The observed combat accuracy of random AKs from random factories undergoing random maintenance practices with randomly trained guerrilla fighters, and child soldiers thrown into the overall average?

    This seems to track pretty far and wide. I've had AK pattern rifles that were unusually accurate with their favorite load when fired from a bench. I've had AK pattern rifles that wouldn't holding better than shotgun patterns. I've seen shooters who could shoot pie plate groups regularly, repeatedly with iron sights at 600 yds and beyond with iron sighted rifles and match loaded ammo. I've seen other folks who couldn't hit a bucket at 10 paces. So, how many variables are we trying to address?
     
  17. Mark_Van_Goth

    Mark_Van_Goth New Member

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    Ok.You're right.Let me specify what I meant.
    There are several factors, it is true.As you know, except some exemplars(Zastava M76, PSL, Tabuk and some others), the AK is not the best platform to start from if we talk about accurate shooting.
    So what do I mean with "AK accuracy"?Pretty simple.It is the average accuracy that can be achieved by ANYONE who shoot the rifle without any kind of "accessories"(Like the bench) and using iron sights only.

    How to define the average accuracy?
    Average accuracy test:
    Find..let's say 5 shooters with different skills(A beginner, an average shooter, a good shooter, an expert shooter, an excellent shooter).Place 5 man-size targets, respectively at 200,300,400,600 and 700m.Then let them shoot 5 rounds with the same AK, the same ammunition at the same conditions(same temperature, same windage, same range,etc).
    Then compare the results.

    You'll see that the beginner will not be able to hit a target above 200m, the average shooter will be able to hit a target at 300m, the good shooter at 350-400m.The expert and excellent shooters will have really hard time to hit 600-700m targets.So what the final result?All of them can hit a target at 200-400m-THAT'S THE AVERAGE ACCURACY



    The beg
     
  18. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    OK, so the average practical accuracy of an average AK performed by an average of shooters. Got it. I Wasn't sure if we were talking about the best possible accuracy.
     
  19. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    The accuracy potential of an AK type rifle is fine. It is seldom realized only because of the way the rifles are manufactured. The AK47 was designed originally as a full-auto around an intermediate cartridge meant for the firepower. Precision shooting was not a priority. There isn't enough interest in producing AK based target rifles. I don't think we even know the limits of this platform because there has never been a les Baer ak or any other gold standard. When superior accuracy is called for, we just get something else.
     
  20. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Part of the point I was making. The original post kind if lead in a few directions. That was why I posted to narrow things down. I understand the potential for increased accuracy is there. I got the clarification I was seeking. It seems we were looking for the true average rather than the true potential.

    I'm sure someone could get match grade barrels, and build blueprinted and trued actions, and fit the trunions as true as possible along with hand fitting parts and hone a light, predictable trigger. Then more precise sights with a longer sight radius could be employed, along with hand assembled match ammo. Then you put the platform in the hands of a distinguished marksman and be worlds away from where the, average AK in Average hands performs with average ammo.

    I get that, and understand now, where the OP intended the thread to go.