Whats the perfect gun against large animals like bear and against a possible doomsday

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by jsinsak, Feb 16, 2012.

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  1. jsinsak

    jsinsak New Member

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    Whats the perfect gun to protect against large animals like bear but can also protect u against a possible doomsday?

    I am looking at the SIG SAUER 716 rifle that takes the Win Mag .308

    I am by no means a huge gun person my wife and i recently had a son and now i feel as if i need a good tool to protect my family in any scenario like a bear attack on a camping trip in yellowstone or if someone ever trys to break into our home again! I am pretty good behind my 12 gauge but its choked so it cant handle slugs I want an all around gun that packs a punch but is easy to get rounds for if our country ever crumbles into doomsday!

    After a bit of research I found that the .308 win mag is the most commonly found round on earth not sure if it's really true but if it is this gun seems to fit my needs !

    With 20 rounds of.308 win mag I think its big enough to put most big game like mountain lion or brown bear down and will for sure take out 2 - 4 guys robbing my home.

    It's one of the few tactical rifles that claims to be accurate that holds 20 rounds and has at least a .308 caliber bullet?

    Anyone have any advice for me ?

    Maybe another gun that holds 20 rounds that can drop brown bears and is easy to handle ? And costing less than 2k ?

    Sorry for the spelling mistakes but this message was sent from my iPad using FirearmsTalk
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, first, it is not a .308 Win Mag. It is a .308 Winchester.

    Yes, the .308 is more than adequate to drop any animal you would find outside of Africa and larger whales, IF you put the bullet in the right place. Ammo is reasonable, caliber is more accurate than you are.

    In the right rifle, can reach out effectively to 900 meters are so. Which MAY be too much for a home defense scenario- I do not know where you live, but this can shoot thru a couple of frame HOUSES.

    SIG makes good guns, the AR style will allow you add whatever sights. lights, bells and whistles you want. Pretty new, so not a lot out there to choose from, and when you add sights, will pop that $2k limit.

    But what the hell, you would probably just waste the money on other frivolous things anyway- like food, shelter, clothing.... :p

    If you like it, can afford it, and it fills your desires, go for it.

    PS- you better check the legalities of taking a rifle into Yellowstone, or one of us will be buying that rifle when it gets auctioned off by the National Park Service. And unless you are running an Extra Full choke (used by very few turkey hunters) your shotgun is likely to handle slugs just fine.

    And not that you asked, but my defensive firearm of choice at 50 meters or less IS a shotgun. About $200 instead of $2000.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012

  3. jeepejeep

    jeepejeep New Member

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    A 12 gauge pump with extended magazine. For self defense with bears or 2 legged predators, it can't be beat. I'd load slugs or buckshot depending if I were in the woods (bear) or more urban areas (human predators).
     
  4. Durangokid

    Durangokid New Member

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    You can transport firearms in Yellowstone. This is not a small eastern state park. It covers more miles than many states. Those of us that live in Wyoming must use roads and trails crossing the park. Wyoming is a gun friendly state. Please read the rules.:)

    http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/10008.htm
     
  5. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My choice would be a short barreled pump shotgun loaded with Brenneke Slugs. Thats what I carried in Alaska. The Win and Rem rifled slugs are easier to find. Rifled slugs were designed to run through a moderate choke. The rifling does not stabilize the slug. It is meant to compress when going through a choke. While it is legal to transport a shotgun in Yellowstone, the rangers and other tourists would not take kindly to seeing it. I keep a shotgun loaded with slugs next to my bed in the RV when in bear country. Get some bear spray. By the way there is a sign in Yellowstone telling you how to identify which type of bears are in the area from their scat (droppings). Grizzly scat has bear bells in it and smells of bear spray. I carry a Kimber Pepper Blaster. It has 2 shots of a 10% pepper concoction that will work from 3'-13' in wind and rain. I also carry my 357 concealed and loaded with 158 grn solids and HP's. Mostly for other predators. I have been told that bears and other animals are afraid of the spark generated by a stun gun discharged in the air. I have stun guns but I have not seen definitive proof that it works and I am not going to trust it until I do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  6. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what shotgun you have but almost all shoot slugs thru full chokes. If it is an auto or pump, just buy a new short cylinder choke barrel for it. And buy a rifle cause thats why they make 'em.
     
  7. jsinsak

    jsinsak New Member

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    The 12 guage shotgun was my grandfathers and is over 30 yrs old my uncle told me it won't handle slugs ? I know nothing about it except the barrel is far near the pump and pretty skinny at the end ?

    Sorry for the spelling mistakes but this message was sent from my iPad using FirearmsTalk
     
  8. jsinsak

    jsinsak New Member

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    Sorry meant to say fat near the pump and skinny at the end

    Sorry for the spelling mistakes but this message was sent from my iPad using FirearmsTalk
     
  9. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    JS- if you post here giving the make and model of your shotgun, we can give you better info.

    Durango- yep- I have spent time there. This is the part I was referring to:

    Hunting, or the discharge of a firearm in Yellowstone National Park continues to be prohibited. Other weapons such as bows, air rifles, and slingshots may be secured and transported through the park, but may not be taken on trails or into the backcountry.

    Federal law continues to prohibit firearms in certain facilities, such as park visitor centers and federal office buildings. These facilities are posted with appropriate notices at public entrances.

    Firearms should not be considered a wildlife protection strategy.

    Park regulations require visitors to stay 25 yards away from most wildlife, and 100 yards away from bears and wolves at all times.


    If you DO bust a cap on a critter in a National Park, well, as Ricky used to say- "Lucy- you some 'splaining to do..."
     
  10. jsinsak

    jsinsak New Member

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    I live in the high mountains of colorado in a small ski town called Breckenridge colorado I was just using Yellowstone as an example however I had no clue u weren't allowed to carry a loaded gun in Yellowstone ! I use to take my ruger 357 mag everywhere with me but it was stolen last year I was so bummed! As for the shotgun I will go grab it and find the make and model

    Sorry for the spelling mistakes but this message was sent from my iPad using FirearmsTalk
     
  11. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Go into a gun shop and look at the used shotguns. You will likely see some older pumps with adjustable chokes on the end of the barrel. They are decent guns and inexpensive. Usually under $200 OTD. The adjustable chokes do work even though they dont look good. Actually one of the best survival guns around. You can shoot slugs to bird shot and have the advantage of a choke. Most wont handle mags but do you really need a mag. I think a 12 gauge with a 20" barrel and a Polychoke would be an ideal survival gun. Polychoke is still around and you can send them a barrel to get a choke installed to your preferred length.
     
  12. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

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    Shotguns.

    The shortcoming is that the ammo for them is relatively weak and heavy for its capabilities compared to metallic pistol and rifle cartridges. And the range is limited.

    Everything is a compromise, but a shotgun, with the right ammunition for a particular application from a base of operations is an effective thing of beauty... Bear medicine in a rifle -- yeah, you'll need a .308 something?
     
  13. Birchhatchery

    Birchhatchery New Member

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    i have a older 500 12 guage mossberg pump i have 2 barrels one barrel is a 2 3/4 26 inch Imp cylinder skeet, other is a 30 inch full choke both smooth barrels in the inside my question is can i shoot buckshot and slugs threw either of these barrels?
     
  14. jeepejeep

    jeepejeep New Member

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    Buck shot should be OK in either one. I wouldn't shoot slugs through a full choke though, through the Imp Cyl. it should be OK.
     
  15. Birchhatchery

    Birchhatchery New Member

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    ok ive shot buckshot threw both and the full choke obviously gives me a tight pattern after reading that i was nervouse about shootin buckshot threw it
     
  16. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

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    U can shoot either thru both. The Full choke, which is putting a lot of compression on both those loads, with buckshot will probably expand the pattern. The IC is better for either probably.
     
  17. Gunnbro

    Gunnbro New Member

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    I've heard of this phenomenon, but not actually seen it. However, most of the "Full" chokes I've owned were in modern shotgun tubes, probably "Full Steel" and not true Full chokes. I've owned one fixed full barrel in 12 gauge (1960s vintage), and my brother has an even older fixed full 20 gauge single shot. Both of those actually throw a tighter pattern with modern buckshot and birdshot rounds. (Also note that a lot of buckshot boxes stipulate that the best performance can be expected from full chokes.)

    I am aware that some "Full" chokes were fuller than others, especially before WW2. I think the combination of higher pressure loads and old, narrower constricted "Full" chokes from back-in-the-day may have resulted in the overchoke effect in which patterns were blown open. I've heard it referred to as similar to a garden hose nozzle that achieves a wider spray of water by channeling the flow through a narrower opening.
     
  18. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Active Member

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    For the last 28 years, Ive lived in bear country, for the last 14, Ive been working maintenance In bear habitat areas.
    This is a tough one, asking a forum for whats adequate to go shooting bears with is like, asking us if running your 1989 Toyota 4 runner in NASCAR's brickyard 400 will place in the top 10?
    In both cases you need to research the subject and be willing to learn a few things along the way, what will work, what wont.



    One reason most choose pump shotgus is one can quickly stoke them with a non-leathal or leathal slug option, buck shot on brown bears can backfire on you as well as sabot types, shooting a bear in its relaxed state is relatively easy, Taking down a bear hopped up on adrenaline is entirely a different can of worms.
    The 12ga can use nonleathal rounds like sock bean bags, screamer and cracker shells, and my favorite remote worker item, a fresh can of brand new bear spray, lugging around a 12ga pump when cutting brush, doing carpentry and shoveling dirt the cannister it pretty light and easy to carry as long as you understand its limatations.
    If your going to shoot a bear with leathals, shoot it to kill it, that means a dedication to knowing what your shooting (slugs), why, and when its prudent to do so, can spot a Bears vitals zones on a high lope, and practicing to hit those zones in instances of extreme stress with swift sure resolve.

    http://www.survivaltraining.com/courses/wilderness-safety-leader-bear-guard

    http://www.survivaltraining.com/courses/bear-wildlife-awareness

    There are organizations that instruct outdoorsmen and remote workers that operate in bear country, some locations like fed lands you better be prepared to defend your actions after shooting one their critters while tooling across the land they are tasked with manageing.
    In more than one case in Alaska the person that shot a bear was fined after reviewing the AK DLP form, wildlife troopers can ticket a shooter for basicly baiting out bears by your irresponsible actions in the wilds.
    In Alaska we have a form that must be filled out.
    You are required to fill out and submit a*Defense of Life*or*Property*Report*Form*(PDF 172 kB)*

    http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/aac/title05/chapter092/section410.htm

    Prevention is Your Best Bet!

    Bears are naturally shy animals and prefer to avoid people. Conflicts arise when they are attracted to human food or garbage or when we surprise them while out on the trail.

    See*Living and camping in bear country*for tips on how to prevent bears from getting into food and garbage around your home and camp.

    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=livingwithbears.conflicts

    http://online.unbc.ca/index.php/online-courses/environmental-monitoring/bear-awareness-and-safety/

    https://firstaidsafetytraining.ca/online-safety-courses/bear-awareness-online-course/

    http://www.enform.ca/training/cours...eness-online-includes-bear-awareness&letter=w
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  19. harkersislandnc

    harkersislandnc Active Member

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    Back from the dead be this thread.
     
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