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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please don't bother with the "get a 380" comments, that kind of input isn't helpful or worthwhile.

I have a 25 I use for backup/summer carry and I'm debating what ammo to load it with.

Remington FMJ: 50gr/760fps/64ftlb
MagSafe +P: 22gr/1750fps/150ftlb

Is the loss in bullet weight worth the added velocity and energy? Is it also worth using a hot loaf and putting extra wear on the parts of any gun, let alone such a small one out of production with parts only getting harder to find?

Right now I'm off the mind that it is totally worth it; that with such a staggering difference and increase it is well worth losing a bit of bullet weight for the added oomph.

What are your thoughts?
 

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IMO, higher velocity doesn't transfer as better in a CCW situation. I'd be concerned about over pentration. I've been carrying for over 10 yrs and carry a Kel-tec p11 and will not attempt an across the room shot. For me, I'll use it at bad breath range and stick it right to the body and empty it.
 

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The question I have is would your .25 stand up to the magsafe +P?

There are quite a few .25's that are not rated for such a round and can do as much damage (or more) to you as to your attacker if fired.
 

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i say no, go with the 50gr. to many unknowns about the pistol. stay tried and true ammo.. after all if its a back up gun something has gone terribly wrong!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
IMO, higher velocity doesn't transfer as better in a CCW situation. I'd be concerned about over pentration. I've been carrying for over 10 yrs and carry a Kel-tec p11 and will not attempt an across the room shot. For me, I'll use it at bad breath range and stick it right to the body and empty it.
My thought was that extra velocity doesn't always equal over penetration. Seems it also has to do with bullet weight. Something lighter should slow down easier against existence no? And considering we're talking about only 22 grains here...

I don't know man, just saying, it seems to me that a 50 gain bullet would have trouble penetrating a t-shirt and creating more than a bruise at under 800ftlb.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The question I have is would your .25 stand up to the magsafe +P?

There are quite a few .25's that are not rated for such a round and can do as much damage (or more) to you as to your attacker if fired.
There's nothing in the book about ammo pressures at all. The MagSafe is tested from a Beretta bobcat. Say it was the smaller Jetfire. Or something similar...
 

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so load alternate rounds in the mag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
so load alternate rounds in the mag.
I thought about that too. Hmm... I'm still thinking it all over. I've read of others whom carry this Magsafe round in the identical gun, and the numbers all sound nice except for bullet weight. Seems at only 22gr it'd be better to go with a 22lr. I may load alternating. Very good suggestion.
 

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I thought about that too. Hmm... I'm still thinking it all over. I've read of others whom carry this Magsafe round in the identical gun, and the numbers all sound nice except for bullet weight. Seems at only 22gr it'd be better to go with a 22lr. I may load alternating. Very good suggestion.
I think you would be better off with a .22lr and some velocitors.
 

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IMO, higher velocity doesn't transfer as better in a CCW situation. I'd be concerned about over pentration. I've been carrying for over 10 yrs and carry a Kel-tec p11 and will not attempt an across the room shot. For me, I'll use it at bad breath range and stick it right to the body and empty it.
I gotta say I agree. I'd never attempt a cross room shot with a .22 or .25 as they tend to wander a bit after exiting the barrel. That being said, I wouldn't fire a .380 across the room either. Those guns are really best for 10 feet or less, a shot you'd be hard pressed to miss. Rule #4---Know your target and what's behind it. A .22 round can be lethal at up to 300 yards. Of course, the report of a shot fired in someones general direction is usually enough to divert their attention to departure from the area from which it originated. I don't think they care if it's .22 or .25 and if there is a 100 ft per second differential in speed of travel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think you would be better off with a .22lr and some velocitors.
No way, Rimfire no go on semiautomatic and I don't do Revolvers. As I stated, don't bother with recommending other calibers, I've made up my mind long ago taking everything into consideration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I gotta say I agree. I'd never attempt a cross room shot with a .22 or .25 as they tend to wander a bit after exiting the barrel. That being said, I wouldn't fire a .380 across the room either. Those guns are really best for 10 feet or less, a shot you'd be hard pressed to miss. Rule #4---Know your target and what's behind it. A .22 round can be lethal at up to 300 yards. Of course, the report of a shot fired in someones general direction is usually enough to divert their attention to departure from the area from which it originated. I don't think they care if it's .22 or .25 and if there is a 100 ft per second differential in speed of travel.
You seem to trust way to much in the concept that the mere idea of a gun is defensive enough. I do not!

Depending on a guns accuracy and my ability to keep it so I'd shoot any gun across an average size room, no matter the caliber.

What the bad guy cares about isn't at all my concern here Pat, it's the bullets ability to defend that matters to me. That's it. While a face shot may easily prove valid for such, through clothing at that low a velocity is what I am questioning here.
 

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Take a phone book outside and shoot it at your designated distances. I assure you, the .22 will do the job. It is known quite well that the .22 enters and bounces around causing even more damage than a round that simply enters and exits. The reason I am confident is that in all my years of carry, I have only drawn a weapon twice. Both times the person I drew on retreated without a bit of hesitance after a simple verbal warning and the sight of a handgun. The first one was with a KelTec P3AT which is the same size as your basic .22 pocket gun. The second time just so happened to be with my Glock 30. Both times the perp exited without a second thought. I don't want to shoot anyone, however I have no issue doing what I must.

But it sounds to me like you don't believe you're EDC is enough to do the job. Before I tried to overload a small caliber I'd just consider something larger. To many rounds with excess power may end up blowing apart in your hands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Take a phone book outside and shoot it at your designated distances. I assure you, the .22 will do the job. It is known quite well that the .22 enters and bounces around causing even more damage than a round that simply enters and exits. The reason I am confident is that in all my years of carry, I have only drawn a weapon twice. Both times the person I drew on retreated without a bit of hesitance after a simple verbal warning and the sight of a handgun. The first one was with a KelTec P3AT which is the same size as your basic .22 pocket gun. The second time just so happened to be with my Glock 30. Both times the perp exited without a second thought. I don't want to shoot anyone, however I have no issue doing what I must.

But it sounds to me like you don't believe you're EDC is enough to do the job. Before I tried to overload a small caliber I'd just consider something larger. To many rounds with excess power may end up blowing apart in your hands.
I know any caliber can and will kill, because they have. This isn't about what I believe, its a mere matter of comparing two bullets in same caliber and trying to figure out which is the best for defense. I'm not saying they won't both do, but one can still be better suited for the job. If you'll notice I'm simply asking questions here Pat. You're reading into things here I do believe, and serving only to distract rather than help.
 

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With any autoloading pistol, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd most important factors are- will YOUR pistol cycle 100.00000% of the time with THAT cartridge. It may be a golly gee whiz on paper, but if it will not cycle the action, you have a single shot paperweight.

I would tend to lean towards the round that will give you some penetration. In order to make holes that let air in, blood out, you have to have enough penetration to reach the parts of the body that matter.

Obviously, ANY .25 held against the temple and fired would work- but what about a shot traveling at an upward angle, passing thru the forearm, and hitting the torso of a person that has a side turned towards you?

BTW, if you have been knocked on your butt, and someone is trying to strike you with a ball bat, that is exactly what you would be facing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
With any autoloading pistol, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd most important factors are- will YOUR pistol cycle 100.00000% of the time with THAT cartridge. It may be a golly gee whiz on paper, but if it will not cycle the action, you have a single shot paperweight.

I would tend to lean towards the round that will give you some penetration. In order to make holes that let air in, blood out, you have to have enough penetration to reach the parts of the body that matter.

Obviously, ANY .25 held against the temple and fired would work- but what about a shot traveling at an upward angle, passing thru the forearm, and hitting the torso of a person that has a side turned towards you?

BTW, if you have been knocked on your butt, and someone is trying to strike you with a ball bat, that is exactly what you would be facing.
The first is a given, but I understand most of you more experienced guys like to say it anyway, just incase... lol

Good points, the rest. So should I take that to mean, given cycle reliability is equal with both rounds in the gun in question, you would choose the higher velocity and energy producing round?
 

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c3shooter said:
With any autoloading pistol, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd most important factors are- will YOUR pistol cycle 100.00000% of the time with THAT cartridge. It may be a golly gee whiz on paper, but if it will not cycle the action, you have a single shot paperweight.

I would tend to lean towards the round that will give you some penetration. In order to make holes that let air in, blood out, you have to have enough penetration to reach the parts of the body that matter.

Obviously, ANY .25 held against the temple and fired would work- but what about a shot traveling at an upward angle, passing thru the forearm, and hitting the torso of a person that has a side turned towards you?

BTW, if you have been knocked on your butt, and someone is trying to strike you with a ball bat, that is exactly what you would be facing.
Exactly what c3 said ;)

With one addition; why not just carry a CO2 pistol? They'll do the job since it seems you're intent on relying on a fly swatter as your BUG :/
 

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Would probabl'y go for the heaviest bullet- best penetration. Unlikely to get HP expansion at .25 Auto energies. Lighter bullet will shed energy more quickly. Calculation of energy of a bullet heavily weighted to velocity, but on entry, will it retain enough to penetrate? Look at some of the ballistic gelatin shots- whatever goes the deepest. Overpenetration not likely to be a major factor.
 
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