What would you do?

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by Moon_Bounce, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. Moon_Bounce

    Moon_Bounce New Member

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    So you're out shopping or just picking up a coffee at a local mini mart and man attempts to rob the store.

    1. You're carrying, you're alone (there are others in the store but you do not have any loved ones with you) the robber does not show a gun but has a knife pointed at the cashier. What would you do?

    2. Assume all circumstances are the same as above but the robber has a gun pointed at the cashier instead. What would you do?

    According to different state laws can you legally do anything?
     
  2. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    That's the big first question.

    Is anyone in real danger if the cashier complies?

    Would producing your gun make things worse for everybody?

    Is discussing another scenario with infinite unknowns and possibilities really going to get us anywhere?
     

  3. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I would have two different responses for these scenarios, and they would be too lengthy and wordy to cover other variables.

    But, with the knife, I would likely draw and hope to end the situation with verbal commands.

    With the gun scenario, I'll likely be shooting.

    Just based on how it's already described.

    Oh, and screw the law. In my state, those actions would theoretically be legal, but that would not be my concern in the least.
     
  4. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    Knife? Probably ask him how he felt about comeing to a gun fight with a knife with hand at my side. Then ask him to lay on the floor. But might just watch at the ready as he could just get a few dollars an leave. No one dies
     
  5. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Produce the weapon and tell him to leave. He'll run out. Everyone survives.
    I am not a cop.
     
  6. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    Take a concealed handgun permit class in your area. Ask your instructor this question.
     
  7. JeeperSC

    JeeperSC New Member

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    As a cop I would draw down on the armed robber while giving loud verbal commands to drop his knife and surrender. Or as a civilian I would call the police and be a good witness. But you should really ask a legal expert a question like that. I don't want anyone to get themselves in a jam; then drag me into by saying 'ohhhhhh, but but but JeeperSC told me it would be ok to just shoot the bad guy'.
     
  8. mikemc

    mikemc New Member

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    Scenario #1: I would attempt to engage the perpetrator in a conversation on quantum mechanics – specifically the similarities and/or differences between Schrodinger’s cat thought experiment and the old “if a tree fell in the woods and no one was there to hear it would it indeed make a sound”, dilemma. During the course of this, possibly, lengthy discussion the cashier would have enough time to phone 911 and…problem solved. If by chance our purported bad guy was less than informed as to the simple nuances of physics he might possibly stare, dumbstruck, at me while drawing a blank and making feeble, weak, unintelligible sounds.:confused: This too would afford the opportunity to dial 911 and the issue would be rectified without further incident.

    Scenario #2: The introduction of a firearm into this situation changes the stakes and the approach one might take. In this case I would probably start to cry, very loudly, and also wet myself.:eek: The bad guy would then turn to me in disbelief and while pondering how he might handle this awkward occurrence I could then probably get the drop on him…voila…again, problem solved.

    Just sayin.
     
  9. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    Yes and no. Your mileage may vary.

    Personally, I'm wondering why you bothered to differentiate between a knife and a gun assuming the bad guy was close enough to the clerk to be a threat with the knife.
     
  10. Donn

    Donn Active Member

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    Chances are Mr. Bad Guy won't act with people in line at the register. He'll likely loiter until everyone leaves, then do his thing. But, as this is a "what if" question, consider this.
    #1) Mr. BG has a knife. You draw your piece, order him to drop it, hit the floor. He grabs a kid buying some red Twizzlers, holds the knife to the kid's throat and tells you to drop it. Now what?
    #2) The gun. Despite having the drop on him, Mr. BG decides he likes his chances, opens up on you. You return fire. Not only is everyone in the store now a potential/unintentional target, so is everyone down range who happen to be walking or driving by. Meanwhile, the police roll up and see two guys exchanging fire. They don't know who's the good guy or bad guy. Guess what happens next.
    Murphy's Laws of War #16, "No OPLAN survives initial contact." Just remember, before you insert yourself into a scenario like this. Mr. Murphy's in the room too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  11. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^^Thank you.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    My greatest temptation, in any event, would be to bean that

    scum of the earth crackhead in the noggin from behind, with

    a makeshift club.
     
  12. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    Here in Iowa, it would be legal to draw in that situation.

    I am not sure I would without much more awareness of the situation. What is the line of fire? What is behind the perp? Is the perp calm, or is he acting like he is going to attack? What kind of cover do I have? Do I have the advantage? yadda yadda yadda
     
  13. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    Taking this a step further, one can assume this is not happening in a an up scale location at 2pm in the afternoon.

    Likely this is happening in a sketchy area of town at 2am.

    What are you doing, allowing yourself to be exposed to a 2am confrontation in a bad area of town?

    I am 57 years old, and I have rarely if ever gone into a location where the likelihood of a encounter as you describe would be taking place.

    Good neighborhoods get robbed in broad daylight, with lots of people around, but it is rare.

    Think to keep yourself out of superman situations. You (and I ) are not superman.
     
  14. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    These "what if" questions are pretty pointless as there are so many important variables that are not mentioned.

    You can provide the information on who does/does not have a gun, etc but without many more specific details such as location, distance/size of store, dress of perp, your/theirs position, view of streets, lighting, what you see/hear, places to provide cover, etc, etc. it is situations that cannot be compared even to one another posting on this same thread. We all have different ideas of imaginary conditions to play out this event.
     
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    way too many things to give a quick and easy answer to this type of question.

    would bringing my gun into play bring the situation to a peaceful resolve or cause more and dangerous actions to play out?

    am i in a position that offers cover or in the wide open?

    where are the other customers and would they be in more danger if there was shooting going on?

    is the robber calm or nervous because he's hyped up on drugs?

    am i going to be of more help trying to stop the robbery or being a good witness for the police when they show up?

    now my gut instincts are that i would have to step in if i knew without any doubts that by not doing so there could be the loss of life or serious injuries from someone being shot by this scumbag.

    but in these "what if" scenarios, there are too many factors that can change the dynamics of that situation. they can end great or badly whether you don't do anything, or if you decide to involve yourself.
     
  16. Donn

    Donn Active Member

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    Precisely. Like I said, Mr. Murphy's always in the room. I get the impression from this thread and many others like it, too many of us confuse our right to carry with police powers. Here in Michigan, when the authorities ask why you want to carry concealed, the only right answer is personal protection. In the two scenarios outlined at the outset of this thread, neither fit the template of personal protection. Much as I might not like it, if Mr. BG just takes the money and runs, I'm staying out. I'll give police the best description I can, but that's it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  17. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    LoL you guys are makin' this wayyy more complicated than it needs to be.

    The only time you intervene in that situation is if the guy decides to try to hurt you or the cashier. Otherwise, let him get the $25 out of her cash register. It's not worth either of your lives.

    You need to try to stay out of sight and find a good angle that minimizes the cashiers chances of catching a bullet meant for him just in case he does do something crazy.

    In a situation like that, even the police usually don't do anything until after the guy has left the store. And then they try to get in behind him to keep him from running back in. They don't want to deal with a hostage situation. And neither do you.
     
  18. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Situation 1...Hey stupid! Put down that knife before I pull this trigger.

    Situation 2...If I had my J-frame...Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!
    Situation 2...if 1911...Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!

    See what I did with situation 2? See how very different my response would be depending on what I was packing? You have to have options.

    Seriously though...once a gun has already been brought into a crime, I am not going to wait until someone starts dropping people before I react. If you do wait to see what will happen and 3 people die because you waited, that would be tough to live with.

    In Colorado defense of another during the commission of a felony is justifiable for use of deadly force. This was covered extensively during my concealed carry class. I have been through it twice. The second time my wife was taking it. So I just sat through it for a refresher.
     
  19. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    I think the one big mistake many conceal carry folks make is when they believe their firearm is for anything other than SELF defense. It's not. Unless you are a trained and authorized responder - you have no business getting involved unless shots have been fired. Even then, you can hurt as much as help

    CC is not a hero license
     
  20. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here you go.
     

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