What would be your selection for a high grain, sub-sonic (hush) build?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by fastline, Jan 31, 2011.

  1. fastline

    fastline New Member

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    I have been meaning to get to a build of a large caliber subsonic rifle. Probably going to have to stay with bolt action for this. Reason I ask is I do have a Ruger 44 carbine that uses the 44 mag cartridge and I might be able to down load them to subsonic but then might have to mod the action since it is a semi-auto.

    I would also prefer to have more rounds available. You can get a pretty damn heavy bullet in a 44. I was thinking about something like the .308 as well. Probably will shoot this one a bit so round costs are a consideration. I like the .338 but that is probably way to expensive for what I am doing. This gun will have an effective range of 200yds. That is probably being the ability of a sub sonic 44 slug. They just are not built for that IMO.

    This gun will be a quiet giant and I really want to get some decent range out of this one. If I could get accuracy at 200, I would be happy. I am very happy with my sub sonic 22 at 100yds but I need to weight to comp the lack of ambition.
     
  2. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    45/70 Personally I like the single shots. Ruger #1 or #3, H&R, Browning, Thompson. Marlin lever. Not sure about bolt guns. 350 to 500gr bullets readily available. Bullet molds available.
     

  3. fastline

    fastline New Member

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    Does a guy usually have to home load or are heavy loads an easy find?
     
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    45acp ar15. or 458socom. getting something like a 44mag or 308win or 338 winmag subsonic your risking case detonation or incomplete ignition and stuck bullets in the bore which is very bad.

    subsonic and long range dont go together.
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Quietest firearm I have ever seen was a De Lisle carbine. Suppressed bolt action .45 ACP. Used the stock and action from a SMLE, barrel of a Thomspon SMG, purpose built integral suppressor. The range that you could hit a man was VERY surprising. Being subsonic from the start, the .45 ACP gives you a head start.

    Only thing you heard was a CLICK from the firing pin. Spooky.
     
  6. fastline

    fastline New Member

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    the 77/44 seems a very popular build and there is subsonic commercial ammo out there. Seen about 20 of them by now.
     
  7. fastline

    fastline New Member

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    I would be REAL interested to learn more about that. I know integral systems raise the bar in terms of engineering because they usually vent the barrel while the slug is still in the barrel which can allow you to use a more off the shelf load and I also believe that since the slug is in the barrel, there is more gas velocity venting out of the barrel to strip gasses quicker.
     
  8. fastline

    fastline New Member

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    I guess I need to research why they might prefer the .45 acp. My best guess is that it is already a subsonic round so there are no special loaded required. I already have this 44 mag rifle so I would like to work with it if possible. My largest concerns are accuracy and range of the round. With my experience in this rhelm, if the bullet geometry is not stable in flight and there is not enough twist in impart stability, the bullet tumbles really bad and loses all accuracy.
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Isn't Kansas a "friendly" Class III state??

    Why re-invent the wheel if you are trying to only be subsonic and minute of bad guy at 200 or 300 yards?? :confused:
     
  10. fixxer

    fixxer New Member

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    I just don't see how you could keep a large bore rifle subsonic and still be accurate out to 200 yards. The problem with subsonic .308 and .338 is that they were made to be stabilized with higher velocities. I'm sure that someone has the experience to work up a subsonic load with these bullets but it may be flirting with disaster. Plus I really don't consider .30cal to be a large bore rifle. The jury is still out on low power floor detonation but why risk it? I like the .45ACP option as well.
    To answer your other question: Yes there is a huge variety of factory loaded ammo for .45ACP. For what you are wanting, you're probably gonna have to learn to load it. I would start with that and use a chrono to work up a 200 yd load. Your subsonic bullet may end up traveling the shape of a rainbow with high enough elevation to make 200yds though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  11. fixxer

    fixxer New Member

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    Yep. We can own NFA Class 3 here and shoot it to our hearts content without loosing any sleep. Just do the paperwork, pay the tax, wait the time and the suppressor is yours. We can even do a living trust and pass on the items here.
     
  12. fastline

    fastline New Member

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    Someone else has a class 3 here but I am interested in having transfering to myself. What is required might I ask? I thought yo had to be an actual dealer? Store front and all? No?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  13. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    As my sig line says- what we have he-ah is......

    There is a Type 3 FFL, and then there is Class III- also known as NFA (National Firearms Act). Second one is for the sexy things- full autos, SBRs Suppresors, Destructive Devices, etc.

    To have your very own suppressor, you do not get a "license". It is transferred TO you by a Dealer (01 FFL) that has an endorsement as a Class III dealer. No storefront, business license, etc- find a Class III Dealer in your home state, do the paperwork, send it in with payment of $200- then wait. When it all shakes down, you get the paperwork from BATFE, and the dealer completes the transfer to you.

    Here is where it gets confusing- if you are looking for a full auto, as an UNLICENSED PERSON, only those full autos already registered with BATFE as of May 1986 can be transferred to you. DEALERS may possess samples that are transferrable ONLY to Law Enforcement Agncies or military agencies. Does not affect suppressors, AOWs, SBRs SBSs, etc.

    If that was confusing, say something. I sometimes get confusing after 2300.
     
  14. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    BTW, there ARE cartridges that were developed just for suppressed weapons. Bless you, Mr. J.D. Jones. Probably the best known are the Whisper cartridges, such as the 300 Whisper .300 Whisper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There is even a .510 Whisper. Take a .338 Lapua, neck it up, add a BIG LOOOONG pointy bullet. Very low drag, starts slow, stays very constant. IIRC, drops about 100 fps in 500 yds.
     
  15. fastline

    fastline New Member

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    EXACTLY! It takes a very specific slug to perform at subsonic velocities at distance. I am kind of getting itchy now to design my own. I happen to own a shop full of CNC machines. (all smiles) so the moulds are no biggy.

    On the suppressor deal, I think I really had 2 question. 1, there is a 200 dollar fee to the BATF? Is that all the fees associated?

    2, My largest concern was getting CLEO to sign off. Now, if my town cop won't sign, can I just go right up the chain? I gots family in the LEO bidnass so I might be able to get it done but I still question this since they can all gang together and say "no, you can't have them".... I don't think that was right to give to locals power to reject the whole deal....
     
  16. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Federal transfer tax is $200 for a suppressor. Put it on a short barreled rifle, that's another $200.

    You need approval for the Chief Law Enforcement Officer over your jurisdiction. City? Chief of Police? County? Usually the Sheriff. OR-

    See a lawyer. Establish a qualified legal trust. Have the firearm (and a suppressor IS classed as a firearm) transferred to the trust. No CLEO approval, no prints.

    No, don't ask me- I said see a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. Mom and Dad were married. Do not try to use lawyer-on-a-CD to establish the trust.
     
  17. fastline

    fastline New Member

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    Yeah, I know all about trusts. Been meaning to do it anyway. There is just another reason. Stilly *****y about the 200 dollar fee though...As if the price of the equipment will not be high enough....
     
  18. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    The price of new toys is not cheap!!!!
     
  19. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Me I would go with a 300 whisper with a 220gr SMK. 1070 fps and it is very quiet.