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It all depends on your objective. If you want to win a competition, then concentrate on accuracy in terms of MOA and such. If you want to be a sniper, then you need to focus on stealth and firing at long range with miraculous accuracy. If your objective is self defense, then the focus is quite different. That's why the military generally teaches aiming at "center mass". If you hit an attacker in the forearm or the ankle, you'll generally dissuade him from continuing to harass you. You don't need need to hit most bad guys between the eyes to make them "mission abort".

I have taught marksmanship from US Army Basic Training to NEW Iraqi Army entry training at Kir Kush. Good performance doesn't require catastrophic effects on target... it just requires winning.

One of the things that is often overlooked is that in a hostile situation the bad guys are smart. They are careful. They aren't just drug ridden nuts waiting for you to shoot them. Staionary targets don't replicate a smart, aggressive enemy very well. It is generally wise to assume that your opponent is smart. They limit their exposure to the two or three seconds we teach our own. They suppress YOU just as you suppress THEM. They SHOOT BACK.

When it comes to marksmanship in a hostile environment, I'll trade a hit on the "outer ring" of the enemy torso for not getting hit myself... ANY DAY.

I taught Army Aviators using MILES back in the 80's. Cobra drivers in Vietnam had learned that firing from altitude made them pretty much immune to ground fire, so they engaged targets with impunity from altitude freely. Our exercises included Stinger Missile simulation and lots of young stud Cobra jocks were angry that they were "killed" when doing as they had been trained. No one ever told them that their enemy was as smart as they were.

The National Training Center at Fort Irwin spends billions of dollars training troops to maneuver and fire againt an innovative enemy that is firing, hiding and manuevering against THEM. Marksmanaship skills are wonderful... but there is a lot more to shooting inside a circle... when the circle is firing BACK.
HOOAH! Thanks for sharing, great post. Stop by Introductions and say hi when you get a chance there stranger. :D

I received some of my most important fundamental and realistic training in the military. Learned it, practiced it, and used it in real time. One must continue their training and shooting education and always be open for more improvement, suggestions and skill adaption, even in a the civi world, there are still some similar elements of combat. One must be always prepared to engage, when and if targeted.

But no, there is no other training that can substitute for the cunning, reasoning, attitude, excitement and adrenaline rush that comes with the contact of live organic targets that shoot back...and can end or change your life as you know it today, quickly.


"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Hemingway
 
Front Sight

I had 3 Life threatening experiences before i decided to arm myself. At my CCW course i realized that i knew next to nothing about handeling my gun with proper care and attention. So i took Front Sights 2 Day Definsive Handgun Course and wish i could have afforded the 4 day. When i get working again, an advanced course is in the plans.

My first gun was a 22 single bolt action (it shot the tiny little 22 caps). I must have been 5 as i hadn't started school yet. I was living with my grandparents on their farm and one of my chores was to patrol the pastures and shoot all gophers/ground squirrels. I've had several rifles as i grew up but never a hand gun, just not possible for most folks in Canada.
 
The best training I ever received was at Cobray International, Inc. in Powder Springs, GA in 1980 with a close second being Winnebago County Sheriff's Department Police Training & Night Fire Course. Finally, the training provided by the United States Army, Sniper Training Course.

I think the best training is the one that we get the most out of by opening our ears, shutting our mouths - no matter how repetitive it may seem. Ask questions when it's time for Q & A. Peace Always - dthomas
 
the mout training i had in the army was really valuable as was the force on force excersises. all the use of force rules that got drilled into me as an mp.

the 5 years spent in the army and the 4 months of basic/ait mp school was really worthwhile.
 
Best training I ever had was from my dad having me shoot a wood pecker out of a tree the first time he took me squirrel hunting just to show me what a gun can do to a living creature.

Then after a few trips out with the 20 ga., he took me behind the barn with a stack of targets, a bench, and a .22 and we spend the whole damn day. Shoot it, break it down, clean it, shoot it, break it down, clean it, shoot it, break it down, clean it, shoot it, over and over again.

Pops is a former Marine Corps drill instructor and sniper.

I did finally beat him at trap this spring though.
 
best training I had was survival training, all we were given was a knife and a single MRE. We were out there in BF egypt for 2 weeks, if you didn't eat for three or four days the MRE was there to save you only once. In general really good bow practice, I made a bow and a few arrows mostly what me and my buddy ate was anything with four legs that we could hit with an arrow.
 
I have had a few It Started with my dad

He started training me in aimed fire, point shooting & hip shooting at the tender age of 6 with a S&W K-22 then graduated to his 38spl M&P 4". at 13 I was given a 1911 for christmas & when I went to Coast Guard Boot Camp when we went to the range we were given 1911's to shoot but first we had to field strip them & clean them. By the time the instructor got to me I already had mine detail stripped He almost had a cow until I put it back together and did a function check, in less time than the other recruits that field stripped theirs.

Then was the FBI Police Rangemaster & Firearms Instructor School., the Police Dept & 270 M.P.Co. It all proved itself when I was attacked on duty by a paint sniffer who raped a 56 year old grandmother & attacked her 5 yr old granddaughter.
 
Thunder Ranch in Texas, and again in Oregon. Clint and Heidi are personal friends now, and Clint is the best no BS teacher on the planet.

Mas Ayoob with LFI I&II for post critical incident survival (courtroom survival and the legal aspects of lethal force).

I have been to Gunsite twice, also...but consider it more of a shooting staycation than the training center it once was. Very dogmatic, and VERY "do t this way or you're wrong" attitude.
 
Infantry force on force got the blood going and was valuable but did little to prepare for CCW or home defense where that "killer instinct" could aid in shooting the wrong person.

The training I value the most is the reactive ranges I've shot in WA and OR. Your using your gun, real bullets, and shooting through a movie screen. Different scenarios ranging from home invasion, LE scenarios, and even cowboy hi noon stuff. A bullet tracking system scores your hits and each scenario is recorded with multiple possible outcomes. The outcome you achieve is based on your performance.

The scenario where you see a shadowy figure crouch behind the lazy boy only to pop up and shout "Dad, don't shoot", was the best training I've ever had.

TACK
 
My first class beyond getting my concealed carry license. It was at Steve Fisher's (Current instructor at Magpul Dynamics) Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute class that gave me a quick wakeup call and made me realize how unprepared I was to handle a self defense situation. It was a no-nonsense class that focused on running your gun properly and keeping it up and running through the fight. Since the class opened my eyes I have continued to seek training through classes or one-on-one instruction at minimum of every three months and train daily.
 
My first class beyond getting my concealed carry license. It was at Steve Fisher's (Current instructor at Magpul Dynamics) Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute class that gave me a quick wakeup call and made me realize how unprepared I was to handle a self defense situation. It was a no-nonsense class that focused on running your gun properly and keeping it up and running through the fight. Since the class opened my eyes I have continued to seek training through classes or one-on-one instruction at minimum of every three months and train daily.
What part of MI?

The wife, kiddo, and I are coming up there Seot 27th for to visit my Grandmother. First stop will be Angelo's for a coney!
 
What part of MI?

The wife, kiddo, and I are coming up there Seot 27th for to visit my Grandmother. First stop will be Angelo's for a coney!
I'm actually on the east side of the state but the class was over in the Battle Creek area, or just under 3 hours west.

Hope you have safe travels. If you like the coney sauce they started selling it in stores recently. Just as good as the real thing!

May I ask what town are you heading to?
 
Police Academy got me prepared, but the training I received in the police department was where it refined. Active shooter scenarios really get your blood pumping and you get to see exactly where theory, training, muscle memory and instincts come together...

Most people will never get this training, but my cousin's went to "front sight" tactical handgun training a while back and they raved about it. From what they told me, it appeared to be in line with my training and what my brother in law has said about Army training.


I am going to Front Sight next month for the four day defensive handgun training and I can't wait. I'll post about it when I come back.
 
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.

It's interesting that all of these posts pretty much say the same thing: It was the basics, when learned properly and built upon, that were the most important. Shooting basics, as is true in any skill, builds the base upon which every other more advance skill is built upon. Therefore, if the basics are not strong, no other skill you try to learn will be strong either! I find whenever a person has a long-term shooting problem, it is always rooted in poorly-learned basics.

Also, I think I can honestly say that the worst form of training that anyone can ever be exposed to is anything produced in Hollywood meant for television or the Silver Screen. If I have to un-train another mid-western white guy to not fire his two chrome-plated .45's simultaneously sideways all "gangsta style," I'm gonna go crazy and stuff a script sideways up a screenwriter!!! :eek: :confused: :D
 
Unfortunately, Hollywood glamorizes many bad habits and

gun myths.

Too bad most of us see many more hours of movies than

any proper training we receive.

IMO, once you've had the training course,

the most important "training" is practicing the

proper techniques till they're ingrained habits

or muscle memory responses.
 
My best training is not training from another person but just free reign on 28 private country acres with big hills,get to do lots of trial and error,shoot as fast or slow as I want and to move around,even run and cover behind trees and shoot targets,I reilize that some of that perfect stance training may be helpful in some situations,but to learn how to take cover and shoot one handed on uneven terrain has to have some benefit.
 
I don't know if I have had a "Best Training" - - - they seem to build upon one another if you are really interested in learning.

I feel I learn with each course I take and I also learn as I teach - - - different students will cause a switch to go off in your head and you will remember something you had been taught but just filed away.

Hopefully you will learn more each day!
 
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