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Some of the best instruction I got was from my old man from the first day I got my first BB gun and was allowed to shoot beer cans off a saw horse.

Later in life I was in NRA Tyro and later metal silhouette big bore & small bore and target competitions. Lots of instruction, going over the finer points of shooting competition. Which is much like the difference of studying fencing and studying swinging a really large sword with the attempt to kill. Pomp and Circumstance versus real world practicality.

When I got older I became more interested in actual shooting scenarios so I made a pilgrimage to Thunder Ranch. Supposedly the best at the time. I still remember their ad "My mommy took us to Thunder Ranch because she doesn't want us to be food". I was entertained, but I do not think this was some of the best training I have ever had, that is for sure. Group size was too big, and as stated above, it took the instructors time to get from person to person to assess, and even then they didn't change much.

A couple of years back I was given a gift to go to Valhalla and train with Rob Pincus and one of his trainers, one on one, in their state of the art, Hollywood designed kill house. For 4 hours, I had one on one instruction and I was taught some amazing things that I still practice.

By far and away the best training I ever had that was paid training was from Rob and his staff at Valhalla.

Rob has sense branched out, he is a member here and stops by on occasion, but if you can catch him and his group when they travel, I.C.E. Training | Home would be well worth it in my opinion.

JD
 
Guys-
I learned a little from each security instructor I had.

Instructor #1 was a retired US Army Major, who had taught soldiers to use the 1911 .45 and M-16. He warned us not to make a student angry, because a trainee had once turned on him and emptied a magazine of .223 on rock 'n roll. The instructor saw it coming and flattened himself out on his elevated concrete platform as bullets chewed at the concrete.

The same instructor cautioned us to keep the muzzle pointed downrange, recounting how a Colonel once turned around with a .45, pointing it in the instructor's face and muttering, " It jammed ". It turned out that the Colonel was not pressing hard enough on the trigger.

This man warned against the tendency to make the front sight wander right and left, deciding that the next time it comes around, it is gonna go : a sure way to jerk the trigger.
If a shooter was not putting enough holes in the target, this instructor would help him by, without warning, reaching over the student's shoulder and firing six shots into the student's target. " Looks like you need some more holes in there ", he'd comment.

Instructor #2 was Arif Mosrie of Associated Security Training in Maryland. He is a retired police Captain with three wins in three gunfights. Mosrie said that in most cases, replacing the revolver with the high-capacity 9mm had only given the police more rounds to miss with.
Mosrie once held a gun in the air and lectured, " This is not a 'problem solver '. This is a 'problem causer ", leading in to an examination of the legal troubles that follow the use of deadly force.

Instructor #3 was Mosrie's partner, now deceased, Bill Merritt, also a retired police Captain. Merritt taught tactics. He told the story a jewelry store robbery, to which he responded. As he drove toward the store, Merritt saw a store security guard running toward him. He pulled over and the guard excitedly yelled, " They went that way ! ".
Merritt then noticed that the guard, who had been chasing three armed robbers had no gun. The guard simply had not realized the risk he was taking.
Merritt addressed the guard, " You ain't got a gun ! What you gon' do if you catch 'em ? "
The guard turned pale.

Those are three that I learned from...
 
Executive Protection & Anti Terrorism training with the FBI and Secret Service. After completion I had the opportunity to work with the Secret Service securing areas and guarding all the political figures at the 1980 GOP Presidential Convention in Detroit.
 
I Was with My NSCC Squadren At Camp Ripley and we had a Guy from a PMC come in and teach us basic room clearing principles.
 
Car54 what precinct/neighborhood/district did you work out of?
!3th Pct, Harbormaster, Headquarters Surveillance, Gang Squad. started Jan. '72. You?
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
!3th Pct, Harbormaster, Headquarters Surveillance, Gang Squad. started Jan. '72. You?
Oh nice you were right on the Woodward crazy area! I am not an officer, I shot with a few DPD officers at my gun club, his name is Mike and his wife was Maureen I belive, haven't seen him in a long time. I remember him telling me about a neighborhood riot (not the 67 riots) when they were riding 4 to a car. You guys definatley had some crazy **** going on in the 70's and 80's and I have learned Never Ever to Mess with a Detroit Cop! I travel through different areas of Detroit regularly for work and most people in this country would not beleive some of the stuff I've seen. Lost a couple of friends to the Brightmore area also, danm shame!
When I got out of High School I went to work down at a cabinet shop and the Fenkel/Grandriver/Greenfield Area. For a kid from Oakland County that was quite and education. I proceeded to move and work down at Wyoming and Lyndon Area, by this time I was much older and wiser. You have my utmost respect for doing what you did and I thank you for that!

Oh my Grandfather was a Detroit Officer back in the 20's thru the 50's, see picture below



 
Miles

I'm a booster of Army training. Using your weapon is only one factor, albeit a key one. The Army breaks combat training into five separate stages:
1.) Individual - Marksmanship mainly, but includes maintenance, ballistic theory (like what IS "battlesight zero"?), technical info (max effective range, etc) and more.
2.) Crew - This mainly applies to crew-served weapons or vehicles but can also apply to a two-man rush where one man provides cover while the other does a three second "rush", then they exchange roles.
3.) Team - This could be multiple vehicles but would also apply to one FIRE TEAM in Squad providing a "base of fire" while the other FIRE TEAM maneuvers to the objective.
4.) Combined Arms - Infantry, Armor, Artillery, etc,. acting together.
5.) Joint - Army/Navy.AF/Marines acting in unison.

When all these levels come together, there is a valuable tool that I consider essential to getting it all right. That is a system/device known as MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System). It's attached to your weapon and a detection system on your uniform and safely simulates the range, effects, etc. of whatever you are firing. Its not precise enough to train marksmanship, so you have to have those skills down pat before you use it. The main benefit of the system is that your "target" is another person that is maneuvering against you and shooting back. The adrenalin flows as you get the "beep-beep" signal of a near miss, or the constant tone indicating you are dead. It allows you to review what you did right and what you did wrong after you are the loser or the winner. Now, as a civilian, I believe that a "center mass" hit is probably good enough. But I also think that the lessons I learned with MILES will keep me alive if and when I need them.
 
I would be interested to find some training on tactical handgun shooting in my area (civilian sector). I have had both the Navy and Army weapons and tactical training, Security Reactionary Force Advanced, room clearing, MILES gear etc. and also some good stuff from some infantry guys while I was deployed to OEF never had formal civilian training though besides some advice at the range.
 
Playstation! Just kidding. The Army tought me proper sight picture, breath control, use of support (sandbags etc) and to squeez instead of pull. That was 20 plus years ago. I though I knew it all. When I took my handgun class to get my ccw I thought it would be a waste of time. I was wrong. The first thing I learned there was that these guys were far better than I thought. I took a class from Action Pistol Group. We spent 2 days in the classroom. Then a full day in the indoor range. We had to fire weak hand as well as strong and two handed. We shot from behind baracades. Whe shot from a kneeling position. We shot in the dark at a sheet of 8 1/2 x 11 paper. It was pitch black. A couple of guys had flashlights that they would flash across the range. I was to simulate a car driving by and flashing their lights in your window. You had to find your target and fire 5. Reload, and fire 5 more. We practiced double and tripple tap. We each had our own instructor that stood behind us and watched our posture and form. I was surprized to find that when I was shooting strong hand from a baracade I was exposing my leg to fire from the enemy. I probably would not have noticed and corrected this had he not pointed it out. I went into the class with 250 rounds of ammuntion. I left with a full 12 round magazine.

I forgot to mention they also had a person run at you from the side at a distance of 21 feet. They had a rubber knife. You had to shoot the target in front of you twice before the guy with the knife got to you. That was when I relized how important point shooting is. Incase anyone is wondering, that is simply not using your sights at close range. I saw several people try to bring their pistol up to get a sight picture. It did not work out so well for them.
 
Playstation! Just kidding. The Army tought me proper sight picture, breath control, use of support (sandbags etc) and to squeez instead of pull. That was 20 plus years ago. I though I knew it all. When I took my handgun class to get my ccw I thought it would be a waste of time. I was wrong. The first thing I learned there was that these guys were far better than I thought. I took a class from Action Pistol Group. We spent 2 days in the classroom. Then a full day in the indoor range. We had to fire weak hand as well as strong and two handed. We shot from behind baracades. Whe shot from a kneeling position. We shot in the dark at a sheet of 8 1/2 x 11 paper. It was pitch black. A couple of guys had flashlights that they would flash across the range. I was to simulate a car driving by and flashing their lights in your window. You had to find your target and fire 5. Reload, and fire 5 more. We practiced double and tripple tap. We each had our own instructor that stood behind us and watched our posture and form. I was surprized to find that when I was shooting strong hand from a baracade I was exposing my leg to fire from the enemy. I probably would not have noticed and corrected this had he not pointed it out. I went into the class with 250 rounds of ammuntion. I left with a full 12 round magazine.

I forgot to mention they also had a person run at you from the side at a distance of 21 feet. They had a rubber knife. You had to shoot the target in front of you twice before the guy with the knife got to you. That was when I relized how important point shooting is. Incase anyone is wondering, that is simply not using your sights at close range. I saw several people try to bring their pistol up to get a sight picture. It did not work out so well for them.
That sounds like some awesome training that is what Im looking for in my area. I've practiced the point shoot method at the range but not with a guy running at me with a knife I think that would make it a little more challenging and get the adrenaline pumping. :)
 
Having shot most of my life,I thought I could shoot pretty well. I was invited to attend an Appleseed and see how I could do. I learned so much, I had to return to see the results of the training I got. An Appleseed is shot, standing offhand, sitting, and in the prone position. As a twist, its scored, and timed, to add to the challange. The targets are scaled to simulate 20in silouette targets at 100- 400 yds. I saw the improvement in each AQT, as the instructors watched and corrected the steps to firing the shot.
 
John Farnam for 5 days at Executive Security International in Aspen, Co. in June of 1991. Live fire security details, shooting from vehicles and various other shooting scenarios outside the realm of the norm.
 
Learned all I needed to know from my Father. Then added to it in the Air Force.
 
About 7 years ago, we had a secruity class taught to us by private contractors, (several were former marine recon). Taught us a little bit of everything and gave us more range time in 2 weeks than I have had in my navy carreer combined. Been shooting most my life but they helped me tighten up, taught us the basics of room clearing, moving to and from cover, and night fighting. A couple of us asked what kinda quals or credentials they required to work at their firm, and there only answer was: "If you are subs you are never gonna have the experience necessary." One of the other guys later explained that actually being in combat was pretty much the first on the checklist for job candidates. Still the best training I have ever received.
 
Best Training

It all depends on your objective. If you want to win a competition, then concentrate on accuracy in terms of MOA and such. If you want to be a sniper, then you need to focus on stealth and firing at long range with miraculous accuracy. If your objective is self defense, then the focus is quite different. That's why the military generally teaches aiming at "center mass". If you hit an attacker in the forearm or the ankle, you'll generally dissuade him from continuing to harass you. You don't need need to hit most bad guys between the eyes to make them "mission abort".

I have taught marksmanship from US Army Basic Training to NEW Iraqi Army entry training at Kir Kush. Good performance doesn't require catastrophic effects on target... it just requires winning.

One of the things that is often overlooked is that in a hostile situation the bad guys are smart. They are careful. They aren't just drug ridden nuts waiting for you to shoot them. Staionary targets don't replicate a smart, aggressive enemy very well. It is generally wise to assume that your opponent is smart. They limit their exposure to the two or three seconds we teach our own. They suppress YOU just as you suppress THEM. They SHOOT BACK.

When it comes to marksmanship in a hostile environment, I'll trade a hit on the "outer ring" of the enemy torso for not getting hit myself... ANY DAY.

I taught Army Aviators using MILES back in the 80's. Cobra drivers in Vietnam had learned that firing from altitude made them pretty much immune to ground fire, so they engaged targets with impunity from altitude freely. Our exercises included Stinger Missile simulation and lots of young stud Cobra jocks were angry that they were "killed" when doing as they had been trained. No one ever told them that their enemy was as smart as they were.

The National Training Center at Fort Irwin spends billions of dollars training troops to maneuver and fire againt an innovative enemy that is firing, hiding and manuevering against THEM. Marksmanaship skills are wonderful... but there is a lot more to shooting inside a circle... when the circle is firing BACK.
 
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