What to get?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Braeden, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    I need to get a new rifle, preferably with a smaller round. Somewhere around .223 or less. I want this rifle for general target shooting and for backpack camping. Since i would be bringing it backpack camping i would prefer if it was a lighter weight. I have looked at the mini-14's and the CX4. The CX4 i doubt would be able to protect from a bear but i may be wrong. Id like something where the ammo is cheap also. Any suggestions?

    Thank you

    -Braeden
     
  2. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Bad news, .223 won't even slow a bear. If you're worried about bears, your best bet is to practice proper food storage. If you're just blood thirsty and feel the need to kill a bear, you'll want .308 at minimum but probably want to look at something like .300 Win Mag or better.
     

  3. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    could you suggest a nice looking rifle in synthetic stock, in something like a .308? Anyone have a pprice on .308 handload price?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Braeden - You are all over the board with what you are looking for. In my opinion, there is no one rifle that is going to 1) cost effective and 2) Suit your needs as described.

    What kind of bears are you talking about? Because there is a WORLD of difference between a cuddly little baby brown and a full grown Grizzly. Taking any straight bolt gun in a lightweight caliber ( like a .223 ) against a full grown bear, of any type, would be suicide in my opinion. I would look to exit stage right if it were me....

    As for the type of rifle you are looking for, you are looking for a hunting style rifle. One that has a thinner, lightweight barrel to make packing it much easier. That doesn't mean you need a little cartridge, it just means you need a strong shoulder when you touch it off. The lighter the gun, the harder the kick.

    I would recommend that you take a look at Weatherby's Vanguard Line. They are cost effective and they come with a factory accuracy guarantee. I would suggest not looking at anything smaller than a .30-06 caliber though. Bears aren't known for their sense of humor once they get a bullet in the ass. You want to make sure the round you are sending their way has cruel intentions behind it....

    JD
     
  5. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    I haven't heard anything but good reviews on Tikkas. http://www.berettausa.com/product/rifles/series_page.cfm?currentseries=63

    I would suggest getting something with open sights though. A scope is a pain in the ass when you've got 800 pounds of pissed off coming at you at 40 mph.

    Honestly though, I've spent a good portion of my life in the wilderness of the Western US and seen many bears. Intelligence will keep you safer than a rifle will. Unless hunting, I've never even carried a rifle in the back country, there was never any need for it.

    pssst... Grizzlys and brown bears are the same thing. Black bears are the cute little cuddly ones.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  6. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    mainly black/brown bears. ive never come across any grizzlys around where i go camping. Ive got a .338 and a 8 gauge shotgun. But there both way to heavy. I have had to use them on occasions with bears, once with a cougar, etc. but it would be nicer for a lightweight. Now you said that you would use nothing smaller than a .30-06, after knowing what kind of bears i deal with would a .308 be to small or would it be effective?
     
  7. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    ya i know some people never need them. but now that im 17 and out in the bush alot more with my family i run into them more and more. Back a few years ago when i lived with my father he owned quite a few firearms. And i really want to get back into hunting, target shooting, etc. So i think this is where im trying to start. But i think a nice .308 or 30-06? would server fine when needed.
     
  8. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Isn't there a category for North American Brown, and a category for Grizzly? I always thought the Kodiak Grizzly was the classification for one type of brown bear - where as, a Northern Kalifornia brown would be a North American Brown.... I don't hunt animals, so I never put much study into them... LOL My apologies....

    It would appear I stand corrected. Black Bears are cute and cuddly - brown bears equal BE SOMEWHERE ELSE... LOL

    JD
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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  10. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    There are several sub-species of American Brown, but for the most part they're all the same beast.
     
  11. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Actually JD is correct depending on what book you read or Television program you watch on the subject .

    In Canada for instance the Grizzly is often referred to as the "Interior Grizzly" and the coastal bears are called Brown Bears or Coastal Grizzly .

    The difference being their size which is mainly due to their diet .

    The Coastal animals having easier access to the rivers mouth and Salmon runs for food seem to grow considerably larger than the interior animals .

    The Kodiak's I think are considered a slightly different subspecies and are indeed much larger than "As a rule" your average "Interior" bear though close to the Browns the Kodiak's are typically still slightly larger .

    This is a subject that has always fascinated and interested me and I have had several books on it over the years as well as read others and many Net articles .

    While many will argue with me , I have read that there are actually more documented cases of Black Bears hunting down humans for food than a Brown/Grizzly .

    Most Brown attacks are often more of a self defense measure when a person gets too close to a mother and cubs . She does the same thing with approaching Males of the species but of course they don't suffer the dramatic injuries that a human will .

    Blacks on the other hand due to their larger range and familiarity with people have like many predators caught on to the fact that we are much easier to catch than a deer or other natural food source they will and have in many cases hunt us down and eat us .

    I think it was in the book "Killer Bears" that I read of a case now 20+ years ago in Canada of a group of teens who loved to trout fish drove to a State or National park there .

    Apparently it was a rather long drive and the Driver who was the oldest of the group and brother of at least one of them decided to take a nap and join the others later . When he awoke he called out several times with no answer .

    When he went to investigate he found shredded and bloody clothing on the streams bank so he retreated to the nearest Town for the police and Forest Rangers . There were Three teen boys that had all been ambushed from behind by a large male Black Bear as they fished and they found the Bear very close by eating one of them with the other two buried in shallow graves nearby .

    Over the years I have read of several cases of hunters or hikers hearing something or just getting "That Feeling" and turning around to find a Black Bear within a yards seeming to stalk them . These stories have been in various outdoor magazines like Field n Stream etc .

    Personally I suggest if one is truly concerned about a Bear attack you have two weapons , first a short compact rifle like a Marlin Lever rifle in something like .444 Marlin , 45-70 , 450 Marlin or perhaps the new 308 Marlin Express and a handgun "That you wont lay down" in either 41 or 44 magnum "or something more powerful" .
     
  12. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Very informative read Big0 - Thank you for sharing your knowledge...

    JD
     
  13. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    I have read the same stuff concerning black bears. Generally they avoid people, but when they attack a person it's to feed. Grizzly's are much bigger and more deadly, but more often than not they will attack to defend young or establish dominance, and often leave after the perceived "threat" is neutralized. Either way I would prefer a 12 ga. short-barreled pump in bear country or a revolver in at least .44 mag and preferrably .454 Casull
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  14. bgeddes

    bgeddes New Member

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    I live in Black Bear country. Most attacks involve the separation of a mother and cub (hiker accidentally steps in between them). Otherwise, they go on their merry way to find the next meal. Seldom reports of rabid bears surface, but it's generally considered exceptional.
     
  15. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Well my friend while I agree in that your weapon of choice might just be great as a strictly defensive weapon my problem with it and preference for a rifle is this .

    Black Bear country is getting to be just about anywhere including on pavement and due to this I want to carry a weapon powerful enough to just about assure a kill even at longer ranges than a shotgun is effective at .

    The shotgun may just prevent the attack on YOU but if it doesn't kill the animal you now have a wounded animal that has already proven aggressive to humans when 100% healthy and in my opinion now even more dangerous wounded .

    If I were to shoot at a bear I considered charging me I would then go into hunting mode to assure that I had either hit or missed it . While I most certainly wouldn't want the legal problems of hunting out of season or shooting a protected species "which is what a bear is in my home state" I most certainly wouldn't want to live with the fact that some hiker or trail biker was killed by the animal 200 yards or so away from where I had wounded it before it died from it's wound while I was busy covering my butt and calling the authorities to report it .

    From what I have read on Bears they are , especially from a frontal angle very hard to bring down and the preferred shot at this angle is the front shoulder .

    I would much prefer a heavy jacketed large caliber bullet for this job as it will both expand and penetrate deeply while breaking heavy bone .

    If I were to spend a great deal of time in confirmed Bear country I would probably go with either the 450 Marlin , 45-70 or something like the 358 Winchester or 35 Remington with the biggest for the Grizzly and Browns .

    All four of these rounds will make a kill out to atleast 150 yards on these animals though I doubt tracking one in the woods could result in a shot beyond perhaps 50 yards .

    Once when deer hunting in the falling snow I began following a fresh track hoping to catch up to the deer , after about 3-400 yards or so I came to a blow down evergreen tree the deer had simply jumped yet I had to walk around . In doing so I found bear tracks coming from the opposite direction I had and they turned and began paralleling the deer tracks . The farther I walked with those bear tracks staying next to the deers "And being fresher tracks from the clarity in falling snow" the smaller and smaller my 30-30 started to look . After a few hundred more yards I decided the Bear could have the deer and turned around and went back to where I came !
     
  16. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Exactly. This tends to be the opinion held by those that are well versed in bears. Those who are unfamiliar with bears feel hugely threatened by them.
     
  17. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Yep and that one goofy dude from California was so familiar with them he got to go through a digestive tract along with his girlfriend .

    I think I'll pass on being that familiar and stick with feeling hugely threatened TY .
     
  18. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    That guy was a retarded drug addict, which unfortunately, California has too many of any way. I wish they'd all go play with bears.
     
  19. iloveguns

    iloveguns New Member

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    All this talk of bears and nobody has brought up the Polar Bear. Why is that? I would much rather run into a grizzly then a polar bear. LOL.:D Just playing all. In my opinion the best weapon against a bear is your freaking legs. They will need to carry you out of there as fast as possible.:D
     
  20. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Bears can run at speeds of 35-40 mph, how fast can you run?