i have come to this forum many of times looking into the taurus pt 809 and i love it, it feels great in my hand i love that it has ambi saftey, mag release, and slide release. i love the high capacity and the hammer, i am very partial to the frame saftey not the slide saftey like the beretta. i like that it has a rail and cut outs in the front of the slide for easy checking of a chambered round. i love the medium size of it, like the 4 inch barrel also has a very smooth trigger. but there is just about nothing you can find that really saids anything about it! either the videos are in a diff language or the reviews are very short and do not go into what i want to hear! i know how guns work! i do not want to see how it breaks down or how it feels i want to see what groups it is pulling at the range for fast shooting, slow shooting, long range shooting how it feels to shoot it, and how it compairs to other companies in its same category. but no! i dont get this i get about a million people putting reviews up on how to field strip it or shoot it and say nothing about what they think. also i have heard a lot of bad thing about customer service from taurus, ranging from the people telling you to f*** off and just hanging up on you because they have no idea what you are talking about. i have seen one torture test for it and i watch it all the time but again it is not in english so i have no idea what they are talking about but i get the point the gun looks very sturdy but no one really talks about it! i need some opinions now for the stoeger love the way it feels the slide saftey i will just have to get used to if i get it. it is a very smooth action smooth trigger and only to rounds less then the 809 in the mag i have heard numerus amounts about the rotating barrel being amazing and very reliable. i have seen some pretty good reviews on it and heard it is an amazing shooter it looks to shoot very accuratley and is very reliable i have heard of people puting 10,000 rounds through theres and had absolutly NO problems never heard anything bad about this gun every one recomends it. also i have not heard anything about there costumer service being bad or good i dont know if that is just because no one has had to deal with them but if so no bad remarks i consider as good remarks. the things i dont like about these guns stoeger: saftey on slide just preference, 2 less rounds then the taurus , no rail. taurus: reputation or the lack there of. what should i get in your opinion i am asking this question on a taurus forum because i like the taurus more but i know so much less about it in terms of reliabilaty and accuracy. also the simple fact that so many people have problems with taurus C.S. does not help them not for the fact that they are bad with people but for the fact that there products are bad and so many people have to call them to fix there guns this seems to be the opposite for the stoeger like i said before i like the taurus better becasue it looks feels and has everything that i want. but a gun that i can not bepend my life on is worthless to me and if this is so about the taurus than i am going to get the stoeger but if not i will gladly get the pt 809 is there anyone who has shot or owned both guns and what is your opinion on both i want to hear the bad and the good of both guns. as of right now the stoeger is winning simply because of its rep!