What is the modern day militia rifle?

Discussion in 'Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion' started by illnevertell, May 28, 2010.

  1. illnevertell

    illnevertell New Member

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    I'm looking for a rifle to fill a few roles; my "it's hit the fan" rifle and my "well regulated militia" rifle. In your opinion what rifle would fill that role? Oh, and is legal in CA
     
  2. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    Welcome to the forum. Pleast stop by the introductions area and let everyone know you are here and a little about yourself.

    The best rifle for what you are discussing IMO is the AR15. Accurate, easy to use and maintain, parts available everywhere, ammo is readily available, good capacity, what more do you need?
     

  3. Poink88

    Poink88 New Member

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    Since you are in CA, I am guessing M1A, AR10, or AR15.

    I know M1A is not modern but it is in the hands of the modern militia. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
  4. Jo da Plumbr

    Jo da Plumbr New Member

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    Very specific regulations on the AR in CA. If you do want one PM me for details.

    Oh... welcome to the FTF
     
  5. illnevertell

    illnevertell New Member

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    Thank you thank you. The AR15 is the rifle I had found and was leaning towards before posting as well.

    As for the difference between the AR10 and 15, from what I've read the AR15 uses a.223 vs a .308 round in the AR10. It also sound that the AR15 is more customizable than the 10. Would you say both of these statements are correct? Are there more factors I should be aware of?
     
  6. mcramer

    mcramer New Member

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    I was in the same boat. I was looking for an AR rifle, and didn't know what bore to get.
    From what I've been reading AR10 is .308, and and AR 15 is .223.
    As far customizing, I think externally they should be just as easy to modify as a AR15. Parts for magazines might be harder to find.

    Like I said thats just from what I have read and researched.
     
  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    You are partially correct.

    The AR-15 platform is designed to handle smaller rifle cartridges like the .223/5.56 - but there are about 50 other specialty calibers that you can build an AR-15 Receiver into.

    The AR-10 platform is designed to handle larger rifle calibers like the .308 - but once again, there are a host of other calibers that you can build out.

    Right now the AR-15 is probably the easiest, most available rifle component platform out there. Everyone is turning out parts for them, so much so that you can actually find a listing of 10 companies making the same one type of part. Variety for personal preference is definitely available.

    For the AR-10, there are companies who are starting to get on board with this platform and turning out parts, but not as many. With the larger caliber, the size of the receiver had to go up, so the size of the components had to change.

    If you have a million dollars of CNC tooling, all you do is enter some new specs and hit "Go". If you are a one or two man shop, retooling to make a different size and spec part could lead to some downtime which adds to expense.

    I think for most people, the AR-15 is a great choice. The AR-10 is a better choice, overall, for a battlefield type rifle, but you are slightly limited on where you can get components, and it's more expensive.

    Now, I am surprised that none of the AK guys have stopped by. The rifle is cheaper, it's easier to maintain and right now there is ammo available. So, if cost is a factor, it's a decent option.

    AR vs. AK has been done to death & I am not going to rehash it. If you like one, get that one, if you like the other, get that one.

    JD
     
  8. brandy

    brandy New Member

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    California legal, supplied with a 5 shot magazine no

    evil bayonet lug or flash hider, a gas system far superior to the 50+ year old AR design, takes most AR mags, 223 so ammo is easy to get, has good iron sights, is set up for any rail mount optic and it shoots MOA or better.

    It's a Benelli MR-1, here's mine with a Bushie red/green T dot illuminated 0 X scope.

    [​IMG]

    The ARGO gas system is also used in the R-1 sporting rifle and the USMC M-4 tactical shotgun so you can count on it!
     
  9. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    If I was getting an AR type weapon for the often talked about SHTF situations then the 225/5.56 is the logical choice. Ammo is pretty cheap and it's everywhere.

    AK types are good for that same reason but I don't know how that works in Cali.
     
  10. sweeper22

    sweeper22 New Member

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    Depends on your preferences and budget. Generally it's a good idea to stay with a common caliber. The usual suspects:

    AR-15 ($650+)- Good all around platform. Precise, with ability to hit your spot out toward 500 yards. Light weight. Large selection of mix/match parts and accessories. Ammo is light (portable), widely available, and reasonably priced. Can be a little high maintainance. There are a host of other .223/5.56 semi-auto tactical rifles from other manufacturers such as Ruger, Kel-Tec, Sig, Saiga (AK style), etc.

    AR-10 ($900+) Basically a big boy AR15. For $2000+ or so you can build a pretty legit semi-auto sniper rifle with this platform. For $900 you can get into a basic DPMS 308. Ammo is of course spendier and heavier. I believe spending for better ammo is also more of a priority with the 308 than the 223. There are a ton of additional 308 options...M1A for starters, plus options from FN, HK, and plenty of clones of all of them. And Saiga even makes a $500 308 that gets pretty good reviews, even if it's not ideal at extended range.

    AK/SKS ($300+) Less precise than ARs and not as easy to play "dress-up" with. But they're durable and reliable. 7.62x39 ammo is relatively affordable to buy in bulk. You can get into some really solid AKs just north of $500, and they just go and go. Again, Saiga is also an option here, and they're available for well under $500.

    Pistol Caliber Carbines ($250+) While these lack the power of those listed above, they're very handy rifles. The three most popular are the HiPoint 995 ($250), KelTec Sub2K ($400) and Berretta CX4 ($900). These fire common and affordable pistol cartridges, can accept pistol mags, and are quite compact. I just picked up an S2K and love it for what it is: a simple, inexpensive, light, portable, tactical rifle that'll put a bunch of rounds on target at anything inside of 150yards.
     
  11. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    To answer your initial question, it is an M16A4 select fire in 5.56X45 NATO!

    But Milita are probably considered to be domestic terrorists. Push come to shove, everyone should be familiar with this platform!! If handed one, know how to use it!!
     
  12. TheDaggle

    TheDaggle Member

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    Looks like a detachable mag and a pistol grip on the same weapon there.... Hope that's not a CA civilian's rifle...
     
  13. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Has anyone mentioned the SKS yet?

    For the Peoples Demokratick Republik of Kalifornia(totally joking about the name,please dont take it personal or get hacked off),I think an SKS,with its fixed magazine is a good option.

    I would stay away from my favorite flavor of SKS there -the Yugo M59-66A1- because it has some seriously 'evil features' like a bayonet and that NATO spec 22mm rifle grenade launcher complete with the totally despicably evil grenade launching sight..........

    I would think if you found a 'sporter' model of SKS,without the bayonet or a flash hider of any kind,and wearing its original fixed 10 round magazine-you'd have no trouble from the politburo there.

    SKS rifles were rumored to have been used by Spetsnaz as a form of close support/designated marksman rifle,and are actually quite accurate for the caliber.They debuted in WW2 actually-and were tested on a limited basis on the Eastern Front.While not as rock solid reliable or nearly as prolific as the AK design,the SKS has seen battle in many conflicts post-WW2 from Korea and Vietnam to the civil wars in Eastern Europe.

    It is a battle tested design that will serve you well.

    Here is a cool link on the SKS-
    http://imageevent.com/willyp/russiansovietcomblocsection/russiasovietunion/handguns/1949skssiminov762x39

    You could do alot worse than an SKS set up with rear peep sights from Techsights,and maybe a bit of glass as your 'primary' sighting system.

    http://www.tech-sights.com/

    I had that sight system on my Yugo-and was pleased to get a bit more accuracy from the rifle.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  14. illnevertell

    illnevertell New Member

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    Wow, so many choices. The AR-15, is at the top of my list, but the selection process on this (and the other models you all have suggested) is quite daunting. There seem to be a million people selling these guns at any price point I can imagine. how do I pick what I need?

    It seems to me there are a number of people producing the same gun, the AR-15, but each is a little different. Can anyone suggest a site that has California-legal firearms? I have a feeling that will vastly narrow my field of view because laws will restrict a lot of my choices
     
  15. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Do you maybe have a friend that has a few rifles you can try out?

    Thats the best way to find what fits you well-try a few different pieces out before you commit with a purchase of your very own.
     
  16. ofitg

    ofitg New Member

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    I'm not really sure what a "militia" scenario would be.... I imagine that it would entail some threat from an armed foe, and the "militia" would have little or no support from the regular military. No airstrikes, no armor, no artillery. No supply lines bringing up ammo from the rear. The "militia" might have to get by for days, possibly weeks, with the stuff they can carry in their packs.

    I'm thinking the situation could be very primitive, similar to what the soldiers faced in WW1. It might be worthwhile to consider WW1 weapons and tactics.

    What if a squad consisted of several guys with bolt-action .308's, and one guy with a lead-sprayer like the AR15? The .308's could engage targets which are too far away (or too hardened) for the modern "intermediate" cartridges (.223, 7.62x39) to touch..... the guy with the AR15 could be the modern counterpart to the old BAR man, laying down suppressing fire while the other guys advanced.
    The .223 and .308 are both popular civilian cartridges, and they are both still in use by the U.S. military.... should be easier to scrounge than most other cartridges.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  17. big shrek

    big shrek Well-Known Member

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    This one ;)
    [​IMG]

    Something you can carry on your tractor, yet still be handy for that inevitable zombie attack ;)
     
  18. big shrek

    big shrek Well-Known Member

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    Everyone forgets the Calico Liberty pistols & carbines...

    Defintely not Kalifornikstan/New Yuck/New Jerky/Ill state freindly...lol

    100 rounds of 9mm per magazine.

    Liberty Pistol
    [​IMG]

    Carbine with sliding stock.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. armoredman

    armoredman Active Member

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    I haven't seen a Calico in anything other than .22lr for sale in years, and very few of those.

    I always march to the beat of a different drummer, and my current State Defense Rifle shows that.

    [​IMG]

    Czech made vz-58, 7.62x39mm, with Zahal/Mako folding rising cheekpiece stock, folding foregrip, ergonomic pistol grip, quad rail forarm, (side rails not installed), EOTech 512 and Israeli patrol sling. Its lighter than an AK by over a pound even though the reciever is milled, not stamped, and magazines, while not as easily found as AK/ARmags, are cheap enough to order. Czechpoint carries surplus mags for as little as $12 each.
    I can hit a man sized target at 200 yards with the unmagnified EOTech, which is OK, I think, have never been a great rifleman. I know the AR guys are giggling in thier coffee right now, that's OK, what i hit will go down, likely, and I am hapy with that.

    [​IMG]

    Couple with a good pistol and Blackhawk mag vest, (with two pistol mags, as well, ), like this,

    [​IMG]

    ...and I think I'm covered, reasonably well. I could be wrong, been wrong before, will be wrong again - just ask my wife. :p
     
  20. 13BangBang

    13BangBang New Member

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    Everyone has their own taste/preferences. I'm in the Army, I've shot M16's and M4's. I've shot friends AR-15/CAR-15's. Yes they're good assault rifles, but hands down I'd take an SKS any day. They're not as cheap as they used to be when I first bought one. I'd say $300+ you could find a good one. The Chinese models are good, but it's kind of a gamble. If you can find a Romanian model I'd say to pick it up immediately. But like I said everyone has their own likes and dislikes. It don't matter what the weapon is it just matters who's behind the weapon and how well it fits them.