What is the cure for "pulling the shot"?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder & Musket' started by dgray64, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    I shoot a CVA Wolf. Love that little gun. I've been shooting 80 grains of Seven powder. I've also used Pyrodex and GOEX. Same results. The first two shots will be within a half inch of one another and to the right of the dot or aiming point. The next two will be about in line, but to the right 3 to 5 inches. The Wolf has a soft recoil pad and 80 grains doesn't kick that much anyway, so why am I pulling the last two shots? I tried it last week and the first two went as planned and the last one went to the left about 3" as I had concentrated on trying to hit the dot. Today, shots three and four were to the right. The first two would surely kill whatever I shot at, but I would like a little consistency. I'm shooting .50 cal round ball about 50 yds. Thanks.

    Dave
     
  2. Josey Wales '94

    Josey Wales '94 New Member

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    Is it dirtiness? I doubt it, but could be. Do you clean after five shots or what?
    I also doubt you're pulling, but it could be. My Ruger BP bolt action cant hit a stump from 20 yards, causing a missed elk about 3 yrs ago.
    They arent very accurate, but the best possible solution in my eyes is to shoot the first 2 shots, which from my understanding, are spot on. Then clean your rifle. What happens?
     

  3. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    I'll give it a try. In this last case, I shot two, and ran a patch damp with Thompsons "13" cleaner, then a dry patch. The next two were to the right. Maybe it was the cleaning. I still think I pulled the shot (don't know why). If it had been one of my modern rifles, I would have shot more to work it out, but it's hot here in Texas and loading takes some time... One excuse is as good as another, I guess. I'll let you know what happens next time. Thanks.

    Dave
     
  4. Josey Wales '94

    Josey Wales '94 New Member

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  5. Justen.223

    Justen.223 New Member

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    I have a CVA Eclipse .50 in which i had a similar issue. first 3 or 4 were grouped, afterward they were strayed. i tried lots of things different and ultimately went from ball to sabots and cured my problems...might be worth a try.
     
  6. Josey Wales '94

    Josey Wales '94 New Member

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    Justen may have a point, sabots are more accurate......
     
  7. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Well-Known Member

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    It sounds to me like you may need to fine tune your load a little bit. In other words try 75 or 85 grains of powder instead of 80. The balls are almost stabilized enough. Working up a load for a muzzleloader is like working up a load for reloading a centerfire rifle. Also I'd try running a patch down the barrel between every shot to ensure you have consistent bore conditions.
     
  8. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    I'm near Brownwood. I tried some heavy sabots last year. They shoot well, but I used 100 gr pellets to push them and they always shot about 6" high. They were pretty accurate though. I haven't tried using a measured load of powder to push them yet. I'll try 75 to 85 gr of powder as you suggest and see how things go. I have some jacketed sabots and some lead ones. While I'm on this subject, I have seen long distance shooters on ShootingUSA measure their load and then push a sabot in with no patch. Do they seal well enough without a patch? The Jacketed sabots that I have, have a separate plastic base while the lead ones are just shaped and ...lead. Thanks for all the help. Oh, one more thing. When you recommend a patch between shots, is that a damp one or a dry one? Thanks again.

    Dave
     
  9. Omnivore

    Omnivore New Member

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    I usually use a lubed patch to swab after a few shots. Some use spit, or water. I like to keep the bore greasy, but that's using patched ball.

    May be your problem is related to barrel heating. Wait several minutes before taking those subsequent shots, and see what happens. Some modern rifles are similarly plagued. The best group my son ever shot from his light Ruger rifle was when we couldn't see the bullet holes and walked the 200 yards to the target and back between shots. Could be coincidence, or it could be the barrel had time to cool enough to shoot to the same POI.
     
  10. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    I used a shooting table this time and tried different powder loads, lighter and heavier. It turned out that with the shooting table and sand bags for stabilization, I shoot pretty straight. I guess I was pulling the shot. I do appreciate all the help though. I learned a lot. Now, since I tore a ligament in my leg yesterday, I'll be off from shooting for a little while. Dang it!

    Dave
     
  11. Walley

    Walley New Member

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    The CVA Wolf has an l in 28 twist that is not suitable for round balls and was designed to shoot sabots. I have a Wolf and find using CVA Slick Load sabots with 90 grains of Pyrodex RS I have been able to hold a 2 ½ inch five shot group at 100 yards off the bench with open sights without swabbing the barrel. You might want to try 295 grain PowerBelts with a 85 to 95 grain charge. In working up a load I would advise you to only use loose powder as most of the experts will tell you that there is quite a bit of inconsistency in pellets as even a small chip on one of them will affect the load. Talk to the people at CVA about your problem and they will steer you in the right direction.

    P.S You should never use a patch when shooting sabots or conicals.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  12. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    Thanks Wally,

    When I can get out again, I will try using those Power Belt sabots with your load recommendation. My powder measure (brass expandable) only works in 10 grain increments. How do you measure your 5 grain loads? Do you weigh them out or is there a different measuring device?

    I've got some Triple 7 powder that I like better than Pyrodex, though I have both back powder and pyrodex. Have you used the triple 7?

    I've been using balls in my shooting so far since it's cheaper and more original. I'm just funny that way, but I do like to have all my rifles and pistols sighted in so that when I grab it (or them) up they will hit where I aim.

    Thanks for the advice Wally, (taking me a while to type this since I'm on pain drugs for a few days.

    Dave
     
  13. Walley

    Walley New Member

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    Dave:

    Scribe a line half way between the 10-grain marks on your brass powder measure for 5-grain settings. I don’t like Triple 7 as it seems to be dirtier than RS and fouls up the breach plug faster.

    If you enjoy shooting round balls you might want to pick up a side lock with a 1 in 48 twist. You will be able to us round balls, sabots and conicals all in the same gun. You would have to work up a load for each. The Traditions Deerhunter is a nice gun set up for hunting and is not that pricey. The Possible Shop has them for $269.00 plus shipping. I got one from them for my grandson and he ended up selling his in-line and filled his tag the first day out with it.

    A word of warning shooting muzzle loaders is addictive but sure is a hell of a lot of fun.

    Walley:
     
  14. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    Thanks Walley,

    I have discovered that addiction already. I missed buying a Grey Wolf rifle in Gunbroker or another sale. It was a caplock. I'll try making that half-way scribe for better loads.

    I have some loose Pyrodex that I will try to compare the two realistically. I really need a spotting scope as it's a long walk or hobble from my shooting spot to the target (good exercise I guess). Gotta love the smell of burnt powder!

    Dave
     
  15. Walley

    Walley New Member

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    Dave:

    Shop around and see if you can find a CVA Bobcat for under a hundred bucks. If you find one fill the stock with spray in foaming insulation and add enough weight to bring the balance back to about two or three inches in front of the trigger guard. The Bobcat was my first smoke pole; I still have it and use it for plinking, target practice and as a loaner. It is ugly as they come but really accurate with whatever I shove down its throat. I did change the sights on mine but it was fine with the original sights. Just had to file down the front blade. I also installed a hotshot nipple. It did put a lot of meat in the freezer until I upgraded to a Hawkins. I now have 14 side locks. Last season a friend of mine took a 10 pointer at 90 yards with it using a 385-grain Great Plains conical and 95 grains of RS.

    Walley:


    P.S. The CVA four in one loader is marked in five grain increments
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  16. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    Thanks, I'll look around. I bought a used front loader a few weeks ago from a neighbor called a Buck Country Arms. It looked un-fired. I took it apart and found it to be well machined, so I loaded and fired it. I couldn't find anything about it but finally tracked it to Traditions. The serial numbers don't make it a Traditions, but every part does, so I'm going to convert it to a 209 as soon as the conversion kits com back it stock. I don't mind the #11 but it has an open bolt system and weather can get in pretty easy, plus the #11s fall off lots easier than 209 caps do. It cost me $50.

    I was wondering if you've ever used Blackthorne powder. It's kind of expensive and I don't need any more powder yet, but it looks interesting.

    I'll check out that CVA 4 in one powder measure, thanks.

    Dave
     
  17. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    no patches with sabbots