What is the ATF?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by gunny134, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. gunny134

    gunny134 New Member

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    I know I could just go onto the Internet and look this up but I know I will get better answers here than on the Internet.
     
  2. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE aka the ATF) deals with everthing involving alcoholm tobacco, firearms, and explosives. They inforce the laws that surround them, and sometimes tries to create new ones.

    We don't like the ATF. Ever here of operation Fast and Furious? It was their fault and they are blaming the 2nd Amendment for it. They pretty much want to do away with the 2A or make it very hard to get a gun.
     

  3. gunny134

    gunny134 New Member

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    Oh okay thank you.
     
  4. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    The ATF is a tax collection agency when it was under Treasury, but now that it's under Department of Justice it still collects taxes and it enforces law, virtually none of which are constitutional.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  5. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    What is the ATF?

    The BATFE,acronym standing for the Bureau of Alcohol,Tobacco,Firearms and Explosives,more lovingly referenced to as the BATFEces or the JBT's (Jack Booted Thugs) by their FONDEST admirers (lol) is a constitutionally illegitimate enforcement agency of the out of control federal government which is DIRECTLY responsible for the murder and unlawful imprisonment of American citizens,the illegal sale and traffic of arms to Foreign Enemies,and High Treason based upon the violation of the Constitution,primarily the Second Amendment via bureaucratic enforcement of illegitimate "gun control" laws.

    To support my "outlandish" and "outrageous" claims against these government sanctioned criminals,I like to quote Thomas Jefferson from his Kentucky Resolutions to describe the LAWFUL "police power" of the federal government-

    "Resolved, That the Constitution of the United States, having delegated to Congress a power to punish treason, counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States, piracies, and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations, and no other crimes, whatsoever........."
    -Thomas Jefferson,Kentucky Resolutions of 1798

    Indeed,the entire Constitution was written to form a limited government,and in particular,to endue that the new government would not act on unlimited power,which would threaten the sovereignty of the states that created it and the Individual Liberty of We,The People.
    When the government claims for itself powers not delegated,in particular the authority to "regulate" in areas not granted,and in the case of the Arms owned by Private Citizens,in areas SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY LAW,NAMELY THE SECOND AMENDMENT,it is important to note,to quote Jefferson from the Resolutions yet again-

    "......that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force....."
    -Thomas Jefferson,Kentucky Resolutions of 1798

    So,basically,the police powers,or the crimes prosecutable by the federal government; and thus the Duties they may create Offices Necessary and Proper to enforce,are limited by law and easily explained by referring to the writings of our Founders as well as the document that constituted the federal government- The Constitution.

    Further,as per the Second Amendment-

    "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
    -United States Constitution, Second Amendment

    The federal government IS NOT given legal latitude to INFRINGE on the RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.
    This means they may not make ANY laws,regulations,legislation,etc. that infringes on this INALIENABLE RIGHT.

    Ultimately,this means "gun control" is illegal.

    Thus,the LAWS the BATFE enforces are illegal and illegitimate themselves.

    So,it boils down to an illegitimate federal police agency enforcing illegitimate and blatantly illegal laws,and doing so in a manner that ENDANGERS THE PEOPLE either by the agencies' members DIRECT use of force or by the INDIRECT CONSEQUENCES of its policies and agendas.
    They are also known to use elaborate entrapment schemes as well as prosecute people for even the simplest issues that otherwise are NOT crimes committed against any innocent persons(victim-less crimes),and to "make up the rules as they go" and have used bureaucratic regulation to lock otherwise innocent people up for DECADES.

    They once tried to classify a shoelace as a "part" that could make a firearm "an unregistered machine gun".

    Put simply-
    THE BATFE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.

    Go here for more info-

    http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/bootbatfe.htm
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  6. Firearms4ever

    Firearms4ever New Member

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    Well, Kalishnikov summed it up pretty well and so did BKT.
     
  7. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    What he said.:D
     
  8. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    ATF - BATFE; Bureau of Atrocities, Tragedies, Fiascoes and Entrapment.
     
  9. unclebear

    unclebear New Member

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    to put it in simple terms a organization that's run by a bunch of people with there heads up there a*s, that like to be a giant pain in my side...
     
  10. gunny134

    gunny134 New Member

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    Alright thank you now I get it. ATF=BAD!
     
  11. fmj

    fmj Active Member

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    Damn Josh! To think all this time i thought the ATFE was a CONVENIENCE STORE and not a GOVT agency!!!
     
  12. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Out of curiosity, gunny, why did you ask?
     
  13. fmj

    fmj Active Member

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    LMAO!!!! Well played, well played indeed!
     
  14. gunny134

    gunny134 New Member

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    I just wasn't sure what it meant.
     
  15. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    Look up Ruby Ridge, Waco and Fast & Furious. That will tell you all you need to know. It's an out of control illegal agency that goes against everything our Constitution stands for, crushes the Bill of Rights with its every act and commits treason as a matter of course.
     
  16. gunny134

    gunny134 New Member

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    Alright I will thanks
     
  17. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    It sounds like a GREAT place to work.

    WHERE ELSE can you commit atrocities and felonies for

    which your own organization would throw anyone else

    in prison,
    and walk away with fat raises and promotions,

    instead?

    We should all request an employment application...
     
  18. EagleSix

    EagleSix New Member

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    ....yea...what he said ^^^^

    It goes all the way back to 1886 as a part of the Bureau of Internal Revenue called the "Revenue Laboratory"!!

    .
     
  19. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Gunny-

    Also do a search for "David Olofson".

    This man was thrown in prison and now bears the scarlet letter "F" on his "permanent record" for having a semiautomatic rifle malfunction when being used by a friend at a gun range.

    Forgetting the FACT that the Second Amendment protects the right of the people to have arms and that the intent of the Founders was that the people should have the same arms as the military; you also have to gauge the issue of what is considered a "crime".
    When olofsons rifle malfunctioned,had he or the actual shooter done,intended to do,or otherwise committed an actual crime involving the violation of another persons rights?

    NO>

    But he did offend the Great Benevolent Government that has deemed We The People unworthy of the Second Amendment in its entirety- unless we follow certain procedures,obey certain rules,pay certain taxes,and align ourselves with whatever they call "law".

    This is above and beyond tyranny.

    When the government can call you a criminal for violating rules it sets forth,which in turn are created against the law that government is supposed to obey,and further are rules that serve no purpose in the prosecution of those who violate the rights of other people- its downright TREASON against the Constitution and the very Principles of Liberty that this nation was founded on.

    Here is something about the Olofson -

    http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=192&Itemid=37

    And as we've been telling you about the BATFE,the federal government and how out of control it is,I'd like to formally welcome you from the United States of America,The Republic with Democratic Elective Process Under Constitutional Law established by our Founders who fought tyranny to create a new land of liberty and government under The People,to the brave "new deal" Utopian "grand society", manipulated into creation as the bastard child of "progressive socialists" who have used judicial activism and outright FRAUD and BLACKMAIL to "interpret" themselves the power to institute their Grand Utopia.

    Welcome to the Peoples Demokratik Socialist Nanny State of Amerika.

    Here you WILL obey government mandate,or else the government will use force via its illegitimate police agencies to MAKE you obey.
    And God help you even if you are a "law abiding citizen",because one little mistake and *poof*, government then thinks it can "take" your rights.

    Because in THIS utopia,nanny state knows best and all will obey for the good of the children and the world and the environment and the collective as a whole.

    Liberty is what they say it is and rights are mere privileges administered by government.

    Which can be REVOKED any time government pleases.

    Again-

    Welcome to the Peoples Demokratik Socialist Nanny State of Amerika.

    You hang out here with us "right wing Constitution loving Christian bible beating (lol I'm sort of an Atheistic Jew) homegrown terrorists" too long,and you'll feel like Alice in the Rabbit hole.

    For starters,if you want to find out just how EVIL "gun control" is,go here-

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/origins-gun-control-act-1968-warning-long-26881/

    Its a long read,but in my opinion,a necessary educational experience.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  20. stickhauler

    stickhauler New Member

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    That is incorrect, "Fast & Furious" was a Department Of Justice operation, not the BATFE's. Read up on it some, and you'll find it was ran directly out of the Department Of Justice office in Phoenix. ATF agents voiced their concerns on the operation, and were told to shut up, or change jobs and go to work for Sheriff Joe.

    There are plenty of reasons to dislike the ATF, this one ain't on them.