What does SHTF mean to you?

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by DarinCraft, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. DarinCraft

    DarinCraft New Member

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    I read thousands of posts of people looking for the famed "SHTF" gun, but in most cases I get the feeling these people use "SHTF" and self defense/home defense interchangeably. They say they want a SHTF gun, but then they describe their purpose and it looks to me like they actually want a home defense gun.

    The following are my definitions that I have acquired over my years of shooting and being in LE.

    To me-
    SHTF
    means total anarchy. Full blown Zombie alert and the "Y" virus has taken over. Martial law has been instated and the criminal element has over taken law enforcement. You now have to worry about being robbed anywhere you go and there is a good chance you are at war and must defend yourself/family around every corner. This is when you grab your SHTF weapon, the military carry an M4, cops carry AR's and me I'll probably grab my AR.

    Home defense means just that. You are at home and some POS gets inside and you need to defend your family. This is not like SHTF where you can prepare to a certain point. You can't load extra mags, turn on a red dot sight, etc. This is grab and go, right now. Most people have a "night stand gun" for this. Me I have my 590 with a surefire forend loaded with 00.

    Self defense is slightly different. This is when you go out in your everyday life and need to have something to protect yourself/family with if you are confronted with a threat. Most of the time this is a handgun concealed carry. This is a dark alley walking to your car and some dirtbag decides he wants your wallet and is going to hurt you to get it. Cops carry sidearms, me I carry an XD40 SC, a G22 or my new 1911 dependent on the situation.

    What do these terms mean to you? Are they really interchangeable? To me you can own a multipurpose gun for all the situations above, but all the situations above are not the same. In the grand scheme of things does it really matter? No. Does someone who wants a SHTF but needs a home defense going to get any different advice? No, but I just want to know what you guys think.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  2. AcidFlashGordon

    AcidFlashGordon New Member

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    As for interchangeable, I think several of the weapons could be considered that. A shotgun is a great, all around weapon and quite versatile when it comes to the ammunition you can use in one, whether it be birdshot, buckshot or slug. As for the noted SHTF scenario, that is going to vary depending upon where you are and what is around you. Distance can be a factor if you're "out in the country" so you can use the long rifles as a stand-off measure. In cities, there's less distance so the shotgun and handguns come into play. The same can be said for self/home defense. Shorter distances so the handgun/shotgun option is probably more realistic than grabbing your long rifle.
     

  3. DarinCraft

    DarinCraft New Member

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    I own a Saiga and a Mossy 500 that I converted to 590 and love them both, but the S12 is more of a fun gun.

    I live out in the country and I agree that in standoff conditions the rifle is a better choice, however if I am in my house I will always use a shotgun because I have three people in my house that I want to protect and not injure.
     
  4. Mr. Bluesky

    Mr. Bluesky New Member

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    SHTF, to me, means different things depending on the scale being considered.

    Currently, I'm getting together a bug-out bag for a large-scale SHTF scenario, i.e. anything that causes widespread breakdown of communication, infrastructure, and law and order. A "SHTF gun" for this sort of thing would be very durable and chambered in a common and easily-stockpiled caliber.

    A small-scale SHTF situation is the reason I will carry (As soon as I turn 21), a circumstance in which I find my life or someone else's immediately threatened. If I'm looking for a "SHTF gun" for this, I'm likely focused on reliability over comfort or ammo capacity, something that is guaranteed to end the threat ASAP.
     
  5. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    When the SHTF I'm getting out of Dodge and away from other human beings ASAP. I'm not interested in getting into gun battles, although, I will grab a firearm that's easily packs and not too heavy to carry. I'm now going into survival mode.

    I know can survive on what I can carry in my fanny pack, compass, 4 forms of fire starting, water purification pills, knives, rope, first aid kit, etc, etc.

    I know a lot of people look down on hunters because they kill poor helpless animals, but if your going to survive, you had better have the knowledge and the skills for finding wild game and edible plants. You should be able to put your face in a dead carcass and determine whether it is edible or not. You should practice the steps necessary to survive every chance you get, I do.
     
  6. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I have absolutely no idea what may eventually happen. In reality, the biggest natural threat around here is a major flood. The Sacramento area is festooned with levees, most are old and many are in disrepair.

    I am gravely concerned with continued government disregard of the Constitution and the demonizing of its adherents and defenders. How that will play out is a very frightening unknown.

    Terrorism or civil violence? I will be the most politically incorrect and accurate shooter I can be. I'll deal with the consequences if and when they present themselves.

    Perhaps there will be a return to an actual government by and for the People, perhaps not. There are so many unknowns that it is easy to slip into paranoia. In that regard, the Oath Keepers give me a bit of hope.

    I'm sixty years old and my wife is ill. We also have pets that must be provided for. That makes contingency planning very hard. I have laid in a fair amount of food, water, means of water purification and made provisions for self defense.

    We have a four wheel drive vehicle and supplies ready to go if it comes to that. Unfortunately, if we had to bug out, we would essentially head for the Sierra's. I'm sure that there are thousands with a similar plan.

    That's why I'm hoping we can get to rural Oregon as fast as possible. I'd much prefer to be in place rather than another vehicle in a massive traffic jam.

    I am neither suicidal not homicidal, so I pray things never comes to those choices. I have faith although sometimes it is pretty weak. I do my best in my own way.

    Somehow, we will muddle through and if we can't, we will have done our best.

    Molon Labe!
     
  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    SHTF –

    I think the essential meaning of this term, on this board, is when society as we live it has broken down to taking care of yourself, your family and preparing to be able to do so for longer than a few hours during a power outage.

    Let’s look at recent events:

    Haiti? Definitely would qualify in my mind as a SHTF situation. Commerce has broken down, looting, lawlessness, panic, social and governmental services taxed beyond limits, food and water are precious. What else would you call that?

    Katrina? Definitely would qualify. Civilians shooting at cops in some sort of retaliation for past offenses? Social services non-existent. Tens of thousands of people without a place to live, their belongings completely destroyed, food & drinkable water completely zero. Wholesale looting. Crime of epic magnitude. No sign of law and order being restored.

    9/11 in New York? Not so much. There was chaos and anarchy, but it was more from people fleeing an unknown event. People weren’t killing each other trying to get a bottle of water or a sandwich. They wanted out and away from the chaos, in which case having a good BOB would be helpful, but I don’t think it was all against all in that situation. Granted I was in Korea at the time and only have news reports to go on, but I wasn’t involved with Katrina or Haiti either to be able to make those assessments.

    Post Rodney King Trial Riots? Definitely would qualify in my mind. Being able to fend off the hordes of people going crazy, setting fire to their own neighborhoods, plundering stores at will, lawlessness, complete lack of social conscience, full scale riots in the streets? Yeah, a BOB wouldn’t even be the first thing on my list of things to get my hands on in THAT situation.

    So, you ask what is the application of SHTF? I think it has to be different for every person in a given situation. If you are warm and dry and safe with food in front of you and water to drink, while 15 miles away people are tearing each other apart to get to the last loaf of bread and peanut butter on a convenience store shelf, I would say perspective could change drastically. :eek:
     
  8. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    When my mother in law shows up unannounced.
     
  9. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    I would have to agree with DC's definitions, more or less. As far as the firearms for the various situations, i would consider my mossy 500 as my "go to" and "nightstand gun" (well, beside the bed & loaded), but i don't really have a great CC piece, yet. The XD would do for CC, in cooler weather, but i don't have a permit yet making this a moot point for me at present.

    One aspect of the SHTF definition that is perplexing is the time factor. If there is another Katrina-type situation, but it seems like a government relief effort is on its way, is that SHTF or just a prolonged self-defense situation? In my mind, if i am not concerned with how things could look in court due to the unlikelyhood of court's return, it is certainly a SHTF situation, otherwise maybe, maybe not.
     
  10. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    With all due respect JD I believe your list to be more of an inconvenience that a SHTF scenario. I think of something of a nuclear or astrological event that will ultimately make us show the world what we are worth. The total breakdown of society as we now know it.
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I tried to address that Joe. Each person is going to view their version of SHTF differently based on where they are at the time of the events happening TO THEM.

    If you were white, and in Los Angeles when that riot broke out ala Reginald Denny, you might have a FAR different take on what SHTF means to you. ;)

    If the society around you, as you know and rely upon it, is no longer capable of providing such, you are on your own.

    The degree to which you are on your own will be subjective to each person and the amount of SHTF feeling you have will be based, I believe, on exterior pressures that you can not control.

    On foot on unfamiliar terrain? Probably not a big deal.

    On foot on unfamiliar terrain trying to escape an area that has a pending natural disaster? Perhaps a little more serious.

    On foot on unfamiliar terrain dragging a wounded or sick family member or buddy trying to escape a pending natural disaster? Probably even more serious.

    Crossing unfamiliar terrain, with a wounded or hurt buddy, trying to escape a pending natural disaster while being chased by a rabid pack of Space Zombies and trying to fight off the first effects of a 48 flu virus?

    Well. Everyone has a threshold where SHTF has officially been reached.

    JD
     
  12. MGH

    MGH New Member

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    I think they are interchangeable; my family, for example, will be at our cabin fishing and growing potatoes while everyone else is fighting over the last bag of fritos.If someone tried breaking in to our cabin it would turn into a home-evasion scenario.

    So I think the SHTF scenario might just be a combination of all the standard violent crimes we are seeing today.

    Our initial instincts would be the same as right now: if we have supplies, we protect them; if we don't, we try taking them by force if needed.
     
  13. Hey-you-guys

    Hey-you-guys New Member

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    First off, I want to thank you for pointing out that a real SHTF scenario would involve zombies. I've been trying to warn people for a long time and now I see that some are thinking like me. Every gun purchase I make involves me asking myself: Is this accurate enough for headshots? Is it powerful enough do destroy a zombie's brain? Could I teach someone in my family to shoot it easily so they don't get eaten? Sadly, I do not own a rifle, and yes I know I am a douche for not getting one yet.
    I have a Charles Daly 12 gauge with pistol grip for home defense, an XD .45 Tactical for personal defense, a Rossi .38 Special as a back-up, and a Smith & Wesson .40 cal to lend to a friend in need.
     
  14. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    You're driving through the Rocky Mountains, in the middle of no where. No Cell, No Phones, No CB and your car takes a crap...(SHTF)!

    The Government decides it is going to confiscate firearms, large fixed blade, folding knives and swords; by force....(SHTF)!

    There is a total collapse of society, anarchy ensues, all hell breaks loose....(SHTF)!

    Or perhaps an asteroid, volcano, earthquake, flood or tidal wave. Take your pick!!
     
  15. DarinCraft

    DarinCraft New Member

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    all I gotta' say is "double tap" with buckshot and don't be gettin' stingy with the ammo.

    as a bonus, there usually is no head left with a slug or a closer range buckshot...:D
     
  16. TheOldMan

    TheOldMan New Member

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    Sorry for a bone headed question such as this but would someone please tell me what SHTF stands for exactly?

    Thank you
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Sh*t Hit The Fan - End of Days, it's you and yours against the savage beasts of the land......
     
  18. TheOldMan

    TheOldMan New Member

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    Thank you sir
     
  19. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    This one may be useful to know as well: TEOTWAWKI= The end of the world as we know it.
     
  20. Jo da Plumbr

    Jo da Plumbr New Member

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    That already happened in the last presidential election.:mad::eek::mad: