What does an ar15 need or not need to be an assualt weapon in CA

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by snyder77, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. snyder77

    snyder77 New Member

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    What does an ar15 need or not need to be an assualt weapon in CA. is it the tree points system or is in just an assault weapon?
     
  2. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    This flow chart put together by the fine folks at Calguns tells you everything you need to know.

    The first thing to know about Cali legal AR's is you must build them using an off-list lower (OLL), which means you can't use a lower that is called out by name/model in the Roberti-Roos list. As an historical note, the Roberti-Roos list was the first attempt to ban assault weapons in Cali in which they named specific guns that were illegal. Manufacturers responded by building lowers with different model designations that were not named on the list.

    So, using an off list lower, there are basically two routes to building a legal AR-15 in Cali:

    1. Build a rifle without any of the so-called evil features (pistol grip, forward pistol grip, flash hider, folding or collapsible stock, thumbhole stock, grenade/flare launcher). If you have NONE of those features you are good to go so long as you meet the various dimensional requirements (overall length, barrel length).

    2. Build a rifle that has one or more of the above mentioned features. In this case you must have a magazine that is NOT removable without the use of a tool. The most common approach is to use a bullet button, which is basically a way to recess the mag release so that you need a small pointy object to depress the mag release. A bullet is specifically called out in the law as an acceptable tool, hence the name. You still need to meet the dimensional requirements noted above.

    I couldn't figure out how to embed a PDF file, so be sure to follow the link above to the flow chart and look at all the details carefully - I am just giving you a quick summary.
     

  3. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    One more requirement: No magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds.
     
  4. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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    Dave, i second that. I experienced/learned all that to be true.
    Basically if you get an AR make sure that it has the CA bullet button. You'll most likely be up to code.
    + the 10 round limit.

    On PMAGS there's a way to put a little pointy nail on the end of them that works well to release the mag and to stuff the new one in there.
    I might and might not have made this mod to my mags depending on it's legality.
     
  5. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    This has been discussed at length and those in the know think it's legal. There are other versions of this product that work with other brand AR mags.

    We have a few bullet button equipped ARs. I think I may try to build a featureless (no "evil features") rifle for my next build based on the Hammerhead grip from Exile Machine. With the Hammerhead you basically grip the AR as you would a traditional rifle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  6. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Your question is worded poorly but you've gotten good answers because kind people figured out what you want. But just to make it crystal clear, we cannot and it's not our purpose to help anyone in any way convert an AR-15 into an assault rifle. That is a felony (in any US state) but you can join the military if you really, really want an assault weapon issued to you.
     
  7. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

    ♦♦ How NOT to get Arrested for your OLL!!!! ♦♦ - Calguns.net

    Can I use 30-round magazines with a bullet-buttoned semi-automatic rifle? NO! - Calguns.net


    Recommended.....no required reading. If you have any specific questions, let me know! Also Calguns is a great resource and lots of friendly people more than willing to help you out too. I'd recommend joining! But above all else, read the law and understand it, that way you can disseminate FUD from friendly advice.
     
  8. snyder77

    snyder77 New Member

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    Thanks for the responses guys. Also sorry about the vague question. I'm looking at those links you posted and if I got any questions all ask you agenttikki.
    Thanks for the fast response.
     
  9. ennbee15

    ennbee15 New Member

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    you can build an ar with a pistol grip, forward grip, it can look like any other ar. it has to have a bullet button and reach a certain length requirement(see calguns flow chart) 10 round magazine, UNLESS you are building a featureless then you can discard the bullet button, but you cannot have a pistol grip or vfg and you must have a compensator or muzzle break. You then can run pre ban 30 round usgi, provided you had them pre ban...;)

    featureless:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=253777

    non featureless:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=232935
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  10. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    It really depends on how you define the term "assault rifle." The classic definition does refer to a fully automatic weapon, and you can't convert a semi-automatic AR to fully automatic legally. But, it's a slippery term and in the common vernacular semi-automatic versions of AR-15's, AK-47's etc. are often referred to as assault rifles. Even the tag line for the heading of this forum reads: "Black rifle, assault rifle, machine gun, sub-machine gun, lots of names, lots of topics."

    That said, I think we all interpreted the OP's question to mean "What do I need to do to avoid building an AR-15 that would be classified as an assault rifle under California law."

    Reminds me of this Journalist's Guide to Firearm Identification:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  11. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    The situation warrants how the state of california defines "assault rifle".
    We don't need another of these tomayto/tomahto threads.

    The man wants an AR in california and wants to be legal.
     
  12. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    Not sure why you are jumping on me Trip, I did give the OP the answer to his question in Post #2 of this thread - have a look. Referred him to CALGUNS as well which is the best source of information about firearms in California. The OP would benefit from spending some time there as unfortunately our firearms laws can be a little convoluted.

    So am I to conclude that the folks here believe that it is in fact a felony to build an assault rifle in any state in the United States? At a minimum that is a vague statement that hinges on the legal definition of "assault rifle" which varies from state to state. I have a few AR's in my safe that are perfectly legal, and when I show them to many people the response is "that's an assault weapon."
     
  13. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    In california even a rubber band gun is labeled an assault rifle and requires an external band safety
     
  14. rigjumpr

    rigjumpr New Member

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    Trip, light'n up people in hell want ice water in my opion should not be in there
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  15. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Can't argue there.
     
  16. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I thought than anything that wasn't made out of rubber and painted pink was an assault weapon in California.
     
  17. snyder77

    snyder77 New Member

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    My definition of an assault rifle is quite a bit different from California's, but it doesn't matter what I say. You guys have all helped and I should've said what Trip said I just want a CA legal AR.

    I was wondering about this AR ,but it has a pistol grip, no bullet button and im not sure if it has a muzzle brake or flash suppressor. If I removed which of the evil features would it be legal. for example install bullet button with a 10 rd mag and removed flash suppressor, would it be legal?
     
  18. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    Can't see anything about the AR you are considering. You should take some time to walk through the Calguns flow chart I linked earlier.

    If you install a bullet button and use 10 round mags you are good to go even with a pistol grip, flash hider, or any other of the named features assuming the lower is not on one of the lists of banned lowers.

    If you want to have a fully functioning mag release then you need to remove ALL of the named features, and of course the lower can't be on the list of banned models.
     
  19. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    The only thing it needs is a stupid legislature.
     
  20. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Cnynrat, again just to make it crystal, I said the above because I've seen FTF moderators and adminstrators get nervous in the past when the subject starts leaning toward "how do I make an assault rifle" or "what does my AR need to be an assault rifle". I know this because I got a gentle "reprimand" from a moderator a while back for innocently answering such a question in too much detail.

    People not in the know use the term incorrectly and people with an agenda use it for that agenda. We gunowners should be smart enough to avoid using terms or doing anything to advance the gun grabbers' agenda. If this seems over cautious please reread the original topic.