What do you think?

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by winds-of-change, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Saw this in FB. I thought it was pretty interesting. What do you think should happen. BF613F67-C26C-4085-9DE3-92066E178C6D.png
     
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  2. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Hm. Interesting problem. Already served time for the crime she just committed, assumed that she'd done it previously. All the reason in the world for judges having a tough time deciding, with that little wrinkle. All the reason in the world for appealing all the way to SCOTUS, I'd say, on that basis alone.

    I am not an attorney, though. Who knows how it'll turn out, assuming it's a real case.
     
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  3. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Winds
    Obviously I am no Attorney. But here is something I found!
    A question regarding this from Thomas Dalton to an Attorney who was also a Judge
    With all due respect, a better analogy would be: (1) if a person was accused of stealing some biscuits from a shop but he didn't, (2) he gets convicted of theft, (3) after serving his sentence, he goes back to steal the biscuits which would have been his if he had stolen. -- Can he be charged for stealing biscuits the second time round? Yes!

    This is genuinely a very good question. It does seem very plausible that the murderer can get away with saying "But I have already been charged with the murder of Mr. X and I have served my sentence."
    However,

    This is genuinely a very good question. It does seem very plausible that the murderer can get away with saying "But I have already been charged with the murder of Mr. X and I have served my sentence."

    However, this is a very different scenario from the typical double jeopardy cases. As far as I know there is no good authority for a case like that (please correct me!), it leaves judges quite a bit of scope to develop the law. Some may say that the law's goal is to prevent "harm", and so the murderer should not be allowed to kill the second time round. He or she should however get alternative recourse (and the framer should be punished).

    No.
    Double jeopardy does not apply in this case, because the two different murders (though one is a fake murder, and the victim in both cases is the same person) are two different crimes committed at two different times.
    The only way you could get away with it, is if you actually killed him to begin with, and then were acquitted. But being convicted does not give you a license to commit murder if the victim turns out to actually be alive.
    And even if you were acquitted, but, in the act of committing murder, you also committed a federal offense.

    No.
    But as stated, Double jeopardy does not apply in this case. So I would say she has a serious problem. One, since it is not double jeopardy could be charged in Federal Court. Even after previously being charged in State Court. It is considered a new case. And could be also a Federal Civil Rights Charge.
    *I must admit the question about the lady and the "Poser Question" Had me scratching my head!;)

    03
     

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    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  4. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How can there be two different murders with only one victim?

    I know the legal beagles would have a field day with a story like that, and I believe that I have seen the scenario in a movie some time ago. She would have been fine if she killed him and buried him in some remote location in the desert, but I doubt that she would skate getting caught.

    After watching Breaking Bad, I want some phosphoric acid and plastic barrels. I have some former colleagues that I wouldn't mind dissolving the relationship on a permanent basis. And just flush your troubles down the drain ;)
     
  5. TimKS

    TimKS Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I think she got railroaded the first time around......how can they prove she murdered the first time without a body?
     
  6. microadventure

    microadventure Well-Known Member

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    Mark was a construction worker and a bass player. his wife was a stunner. her daughter was Pamela Anderson fine at 14. they got divorced. darling stepdaughter accused Mark of kiddy diddling her. Mark got 5 years. three years after he went away, daughter turned 18. first thing first day she was 18, darling daughter went to the DA and said it was all lies, Mark never touched her, mommy made me say those things. Mark got out of prison, got a pardon, and has no memories of anything unpleasant happening in the prior three years.

    does Mark get a free pass at darling stepdaughter?
     
  7. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You don't have to have a body to convict someone of murder.
     
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  8. dango

    dango Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Well Winds , she should plea temporary insanity ! The rage , anger , the loss of part of her life and him to be found with another woman ! Give her a pill , some counseling and let her move on !
     
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  9. Fred_G

    Fred_G Well-Known Member

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    I think she should have consulted an attorney before re killing him. :)
     
  10. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If I was Mark, I would keep my putter in the the old golf bag. No, he would not get a pass.

    I think that the same thing happened to a nephew, but he spent about a decade in the pen. She said it, no evidence, no witness, he had a public defender who didn't look out for him, his mother wouldn't pay for an attorney, and his life is over except for the dying. He may have or may not have actually fondled the 15 year old stepdaughter, but she hated him for trying to reign in her excessive partying and it may have been an "I'll show you!"

    Of course he may have done it. He got out on probation after about five years, but he violated by drinking at home and his PO caught him and sent him back for the duration.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  11. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like double jeopardy to me.
     
  12. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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  13. sheriffjohn

    sheriffjohn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To charge a crime, the state (PA/DA) must alledge that there was a law in force at the alleged time prohibiting the action, that the crime occurred within the jurisdiction of the court, the date of occurance, and what probable cause exists to make a reasonable person believe a real person committed that particular crime. Whiile her first case was certainly a bad deal, the second one is a slam dunk. She's toast.
     
  14. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    For a claim and a conviction, sure.

    Though, a strong argument can be made that it cannot be proved that such occurred. Which is what the scenario shows in spades, if nothing else.
     
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  15. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My prediction: she will get a wrongful conviction for the first murder, get a healthy payout from the people that work.

    She will then be guilty of murdering him again. (Is this guy a vampire or sumpin?) She will plead stress and anxiety for the first wrongful conviction, and her sentence will be reduced because of it.

    If she has kids, they will enjoy her money after she dies, assuming she never will be a free woman.
     
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  16. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Then there's the "double jeopardy" aspect. Same crime, since they accused/convicted her of killing that specific person, earlier, but now they'd be considering doing so again.
     
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  17. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like a perfect case for the application of jury nullification to me.
     
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  18. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    That’s what I’m wondering. Is this double jeopardy?
     
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  19. Mister Dave

    Mister Dave Well-Known Member

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    No. Double jeopardy is for the same crime. This is a different crime. She was innocent in the first case, but apparently not this one.

    The better choice would have been to sue for false imprisonment.
     
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  20. W.T. Sherman

    W.T. Sherman Well-Known Member

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    this scenario sounds like a episode of LAW AND ORDER, if I remember correctly they charged him with murder again, and gave him time served for the first conviction and added 5 years this time around, being it was a higher charge of murder.
     
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