What do you know about the T.A.R. 21?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by BSNINJA, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. BSNINJA

    BSNINJA New Member

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    The Tavor line of bullpups piqued my interest, and I'm looking to get an assault rifle/carbine. Anybody have an insight into the weapon? Hands-on? Performance specs? etc.

    Im particularly interested in the "S.T.A.R. 21" setup (S for sharp shooter, as far as i can tell) due to its upper rail mounts instead of hard mounted MARS sight like the other 2 models, and longer barrel. EDIT: The civilian model is pretty nice too. It seems the MARS sight on it is removable.

    The good? the bad? and don't spare the ugly! :D

    EDIT: Pictures. all found at http://world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm

    Tavor TAR-21 assault rifle (standard version)
    [​IMG]

    Tavor STAR 21 (designated marksman) rifle
    [​IMG]

    Civilian (semi-automatic only) version of the Tavor. Note the different shape of the butt, handguard and the trigger guard, basically similar to that of the Micro-Tavor (civilian versions with oversized trigger guard also manufactured). Also, the Magazine release seems to be side-mounted.
    [​IMG]

    NOT SHOWN:
    "MTAR 21" - "Micro" Version
    "CTAR 21" - "Carbine" or "Commanders" version
    "TAR 21 w/ M203" - Grenadier Setup

    due to image link limitations. They can be seen at the link given above.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  2. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    The AR in AR stands for Armalite Rifle. Just thought I'd pass that FYI along.
     

  3. BSNINJA

    BSNINJA New Member

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    Oh, and to be more precise, I was hoping maybe somebody had some hands on experience. Maybe somebody owns one?

    hunter Joe:
    Yeah, I figured as much at first, but it's not an Armalite Rifle.
    T.A.R. 21 = Tavor Assault Rifle 21st Century, or so says wikipedia.

    IMI Tavor TAR-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Made by Israeli Military Industries.

    Dillinger:
    Sweet. Thanks. I'll check that out.
     
  4. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    The only thing I dislike about it is the fact that my cheek would be right on the chamber. That to me is asking for blow someone jaw off.
     
  5. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    BSNinja I'm familiar with the TAR 21 although have never had the pleasure to shoot it.

    I just threw out the AR FYI because I believe it is important to separate the two. I was not implying that you were some kind of do do head. Sorry, Joe
     
  6. BSNINJA

    BSNINJA New Member

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    cpttango30:
    :eek:Yeah, but that would be highly unlikely, I would think. er... I hope. :p

    hunter Joe:
    I took no offense, so no worries.:D Just thought we might be on different pages here. I suppose you were insuring that everyone else who read this understood?

    Also, I find that there is a "civilian" model, that bears a few 'furniture' differences (Fore-grip, butt-stock, and trigger guard are different). If I can figure it out, I will edit my original posting to include a few pics.
     
  7. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    That's the problem with all long guns, you got your wood right on the wood. You can't say enough about safety and always wearing eye protection and hearing protection when setting off those small explosions.
     
  8. BSNINJA

    BSNINJA New Member

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    I just realized you may have been referring to my stated interest in the AR style assault rifles in another thread. My apologies. Same frequency, different channel :p
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    The TAVOR is purpose built, and that purpose is to present as small of a target in CQB combat, while still achieving the best possible accuracy, because you have a full length ( 24" or 26" barrel ).

    As Tango has correctly indicated, your head is right over the chamber, so while the average military guy is shooting military controlled "factory" rounds, someone who was reloading COULD have an incident.

    Should that happen, we are not talking slight burns, we are talking needing a new face, or head. :eek:

    Now, in a smaller caliber without much recoil and muzzle flash, this bullpup design seems like a great solution.

    However, you try to stretch this platform to incorporate some sort of real long range capability, you are asking for problems, IMO.

    That is a muzzle that is VERY close to your optics, and your face. Shoot this thing at night, or with magnum powered rounds. And. Well.... :confused::eek:
     
  10. BSNINJA

    BSNINJA New Member

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    Para-quotes from Dillinger:

    Fair enough, and understandable. I was unaware of the likeliness of this situation. I fully intend to use factory or 'acquired military surplus' rounds:rolleyes:.

    If I were to get one, I intended to get a heavier, and maybe longer barrel. Is this a potential ingredient in this recipe of disaster that you speak of?

    What could an aftermarket flash-hider do to minimize this issue, do you think?

    Edit: Also, that Tactical Trunk Monkey is great! haha.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  11. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    No matter what your ammo. All this stuff is made by humans and we humans are imperfect so to assume that the product is perfect and will not have a malfunction is just stupid.

    even if for some odd reason you have an out of battery fire say good by to your ear and maybe your eye on that side.

    I am just saying. That is the reason I would never shoot of use a bullpup style weapon.
     
  12. BSNINJA

    BSNINJA New Member

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    I don't know how many people are actually following this thread, but as it seems there is little-to-no information or discussion regarding the TAR 21 on this forum, it would surely be in at least one other persons interest to share my findings (I am spending pretty much all my spare time researching the damn thing lately, I'm afraid :D).

    The TAR 21, in short, is hard to come by in the states. The Civilian Model, as depicted in my original post (one finger trigger guard, high cheek rest, etc...) is said to be manufactured, or was manufactured, by Barrett. The name I have for this model - "TC-21" - fails to return any results on a Google search, on the Barrett website, or anything of the like, and so that information is questionable.

    A few years ago, a Canadian company [ CanadaAmmo.com ] began manufacturing them on this side of the pond. They sold quickly, and as of now the standard model sells for some $3,000 there. Charles Daly / KBI was to manufacture them from somewhere in Brazil, but seems to be out of business these days, as is evident by the splash banner on their website main page [ KBI, Inc. ].

    ANYWAYS, some trajectory stats, and such:

    M855/SS109 5.56x45mm

    Ballistic Coefficient: .353 Bullet Diameter: .224 in. Bullet Weight: 62 grains
    Muzzle Velocity: 3100 ft./sec. Sight Height: 2.5 in. Zero Distance: 328 yds.
    Cross Wind: 5 mph Firing Angle: 0 degrees

    Indices Range
    Range - yds. 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350 400 450 500 550 600 650 700
    Velocity - ft./sec. 3100 2962 2828 2697 2570 2447 2327 2211 2098 1990 1884 1782 1683 1590 1502
    Energy - ft.-lbs. 1323 1208 1101 1001 909 824 745 673 606 545 489 437 390 348 310
    Path - in. -2.5 1.1 3.7 5.2 5.5 4.5 2.1 -2.0 -7.8 -15.6 -25.6 -38.1 -53.3 -71.6 -93.3
    Drift - in. 0.0 0.1 0.2 0.4 0.8 1.2 1.8 2.6 3.4 4.5 5.7 7.0 8.6 10.4 12.3


    M193 5.56x45mm

    Ballistic Coefficient: .255 Bullet Diameter: .224 in. Bullet Weight: 55 grains
    Muzzle Velocity: 3200 ft./sec. Sight Height: 2.5 in. Zero Distance: 273 yds.
    Cross Wind: 5 mph Firing Angle: 0 degrees

    Indices Range
    Range - yds. 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350 400 450 500 550 600 650 700
    Velocity - ft./sec. 3200 3006 2819 2640 2467 2302 2143 1991 1846 1707 1577 1457 1348 1252 1170
    Energy - ft.-lbs. 1250 1103 970 851 743 647 561 484 416 356 304 259 222 191 167
    Path - in. -2.5 0.5 2.5 3.4 3.1 1.3 -2.0 -7.3 -14.8 -24.9 -37.9 -54.5 -75.1 -100.5 -131.5
    Drift - in. 0.0 0.1 0.2 0.6 1.1 1.7 2.6 3.6 4.9 6.5 8.3 10.4 12.9 15.7 18.8

    Sources/Helpful Sites for anyone interested:

    LOOOOONG thread concerning the TAR-21 coming to the states, and such
    (I admittedly only read to page 4, but it has 40-something pages, and I'm tired :p I'll continue tomorrow.)
    [ Charles Daly working with IMI to produce a US TAVOR...PICS INSIDE...Confirmed By C/D Mr.K inside! - AR15.COM ]

    Source of the trajectory stats:
    [ The Tavor TAR-21 - TheFiringLine Forums ]

    And also, Ive still got my eyes on what Dillinger refers to (I think it was Dillinger) as "black rifles". Completely unrelated, but just something I read that keeps me coming back to AR's:
    [ Sunday Long Range Shooting, Questions - TheFiringLine Forums ]


    And, lastly: to any forum 'geeks', does this forum support table tags? I'm slightly O.C.D., and the numbers above would look better in tables :p

    tl;dr: So who the sells 'em anyway?!?!
     
  13. Dzscubie

    Dzscubie New Member

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    Well keep looking for this TAR 21 if you want, I’ll keep my Steyr Aug, to me it has cleaner lines than the TAR 21 picture you posted and the Aug has a proven track record of performance… I do love me my Aug.
     

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  14. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    BSNinja, that TAR is a pretty cool firearm as are the FALs etc, etc. IMHO they are an acquired taste and I do not believe they have the following that those evil black guns have. I don't think there are too many people that have had an opportunity to shoot one so it is hard to form an educated opinion of them. Hang in there and hopefully you will run into somebody that can give you an educated opinion and just not the "can't be any damned good cause it ain't a 1911" drama.

    Buy more Glocks. Joe

    Is this bug driving you crazy yet?