What do I tell him?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by EW1066, May 16, 2012.

  1. EW1066

    EW1066 Member Supporter

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    A friend of mine went to buy a Smith and Wesson M&P a few months ago. He put money down on the gun and it was ordered. Several weeks later the gun store owner told him that the gun was on back order and it would be several more weeks before the order could be filled. The owner then offered my friend a DPMS rifle instead. I don't know if there was and price difference but my friend accepted the deal. After his purchase I told him I would look at the gun and stake the castle nut and make sure the gas key was properly staked as well.

    He finally brought the gun by tonight. I stripped the gun down to give it a good cleaning and lube it up since it was VERY DRY. As I stripped down the BCG I notice some carbon build up on the bolt tail. Build up that will not wipe off with a rag. The bolt cam pin seems to have an inordinate amount of wear, considering it is supposed to be new. As I wiped down everything I became concerned about all of the BLACK residue that I was seeing on my cleaning rags. Bare in mind that he has yet to fire this weapon. As I was reassembling the weapon and marveling at all of the chicom airsoft goodness he already has on this weapon, I looked at the A2 flash hider. There is Green residue on the inside of the FH. I have seen this before on rifles where the owner has used a foaming bore cleaner. It leaves a residue from the copper it dissolves which then turns green. At this point I have my doubts as to the "newness" of this rifle.

    If this weapon was sold to him as used then, "no harm no foul". If on the other hand it was represented as new, then I feel he got ripped off. He really likes the gun and can't wait to go shoot it. Do I tell him he may have been ripped off or just let him be happy in his ignorance?

    Thanks for any advice

    EDUB

    For all of those would speculate; My friend is not ME !
     
  2. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    I would want to know if it was mine.
     

  3. Diver9543

    Diver9543 New Member

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    Wow, you do have a tough call on this one. I would probably ask him if it was a used gun. If he ask why I would say it just appeared to have unusual wear and discoloring in areas that a new gun wouldn't have. Who knows maybe it was a demo gun. My humble 2 cents.
     
  4. frostyone

    frostyone New Member

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    I would have to say tell him. That way if the gun shop sold it to him as new he will, at minimum, know to take his business elsewhere in the future.
     
  5. AndyRexia

    AndyRexia New Member

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    He's your friend. Tell him. Chances are hes not going to care, as long as the rifle works. Hes probably too excited that he has it to really get upset about it. Like the others said, he should know about it though so he can take his business somewhere else in the future.
     
  6. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    Definitely would have to let him know.
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Maybe your buddy ran a bunch of rounds through it before he brought it to you
     
  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would ask him a lot more questions before telling him but I would tell him the facts.
     
  9. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    This & maybe have a reeeeeeeeeeeeally cold beer to hand him.
     
  10. kytowboater

    kytowboater Active Member

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    This is the best answer IMO.
     
  11. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    Absolutely tell him what you found.
     
  12. billt

    billt New Member

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    If he's your friend I would tell him immediately. Always ask yourself in these kind of situations, if it were turned around would you want to know? Being a good friend sometimes means being the bearer of bad news. Getting hosed on a gun, or having someone tell you your wife is fooling around on you are two that come to mind that anyone is better off knowing than not.
     
  13. Fixer

    Fixer New Member

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    He got taken for a ride or DPMS did extensive testing on the rifle. If the wear on the inside doesnt match the wear on the outside its either a home built / rebuild or the rifle went through testing.

    No scratches on the shell deflector tells me its a new Upper or a protected one. You say there is a lot of wear, so either you are wrong or its all factory testing. You cant have carbon build up on the inside and no wear on the outside unless you planned that. Its possible you are seeing all the carbon from the inside of the barrel and its a re-build / homebuilt using an old barrel...NOT COOL. .... OR... all that black was actually dry film lube from the factory and you don't know what you are talking about.

    Have your friend call DPMS and get info on the serial number. They can say if it left the factory as a stripped lower, or complete rifle. Find out how long ago. If they doesnt match what the salesman says, then your buddy can go back and demand his cash back.

    The fact you commented on all the chicom MIC gear tells me you need to have that talk with him too. Just becareful there too. I have had "experts" tell me things about my rifle not realizing I have been using and building AR15s/M16s since early 1980s....and I know they were clueless. IE..my BAD lever is a chicom part meant to be on airsoft toys.... My Mako Defense AG43 was ChiCom airsoft...again real Mako Defense is Israeli gear...not chicom crap. I know "experts" who say Magpul is chicom. Just becareful there unless you know for a fact what you are looking at.
     
  14. billt

    billt New Member

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    Another way is to look at the brass deflector on the lower. If it is a new rifle you should be able to see no more than 5 brass transfer marks from the empty cases that hit it. The factory does not clean these off. All of my Bushmasters, Colts, and my DPMS had these marks where the guns were proofed at the factory. After the first range trip you could see the difference.

    Most all manufacturers ship their weapons dry, but you can tell by disassembly, (which you should do to any newly purchased AR-15), and by looking at the bolt cam pin. After just a couple of rounds fired at the factory, it will still show the flat Phosphate coating on it. After just one range trip the cam pin will show shiny wear as the excess Phosphate wears off. Any new AR-15 will show this difference before and after the first range trip. If it was worn shiny after he bought it, the gun was used, period.
     
  15. EW1066

    EW1066 Member Supporter

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    Okay, so, the truth (as I see it) and a cold beer and have him call DPMS to determine the original configuration of the gun.

    There is some brass transfer on the deflector. However it is one, 1/8th in.wide, mark at the very tip of the deflector, not individual marks. So it appears to be an accumulation of marks. The cam pin is worn shiny in several spots and the bolt face has more brass transfer on it than I have seen before.

    Thanks gentlemen. Your advice is appreciated.

    EDUB
     
  16. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Lots of good advice above and things to check. Definitely find out if he bought a used gun then tell him your concerns.
     
  17. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    Before you let him go off in the cold, cruel world alone, verify that he didn't buy a used firearm. If he didn't, then I'd be having a chat with the local gun store about WTF they are doing.
     
  18. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    Get the whole story first. Once you have the whole story, you can work from there.
    Oh, +2 on the adult beverages.
     
  19. EW1066

    EW1066 Member Supporter

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    I will ask questions first I.E. Was it new? Have you shot it and cleaned it? I have no doubt as to the Chinese origin of his accessories. He even gave me a set of Magpul MBUS to put on and the box has a "made in china" sticker on it. Those sights are too small to clamp on the picatinny rail.

    EDUB

    ETA: I have already placed a call to DPMS and asked that they give me info concerning how that serial # left their facility. As a complete rifle, as a complete lower or as a stripped lower. I anxiously await their reply.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  20. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Keep us in the loop, EW. I hope there is a good outcome for your friend. Something like he paid $500 for a used AR that works ok for his purposes.