What barrel?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by GaMatt72, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. GaMatt72

    GaMatt72 New Member

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    Who has the best barrel for the buck? I want 5.56 1in7 twist. I have been reading that the 1in7 has some advantages. What do you guys suggest or think? I want a 16 or 14 inch also. Really want a 10in.
     
  2. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    That depends on what you are willing to spend , 1:7 advantage is being able to shoot 75+ gr bullets accurately , beyond that Im not sure there is a real advantage 16" is fine however if you go with a 14" remember the flash hider will be pinned and welded on so you wont be able to change it without alot of work , 10" you get to jump thru a bunch of hoops with your local PD if they will even sign off on it , then fingerprinted and then you get to spend an additional $200 if you get approved for a SBR tax stamp along with having your name , city and state engraved into the receiver which will cost you about $70 to get a professional looking job done. I just did this and got it mailed off a week ago last friday . Now I get to wait 6-9 months to get my stamp back to be legal .
    If thats what you really really want and dont mind the wait go for it .
     

  3. MikeJK

    MikeJK New Member

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    Daniel Defense CHF
     
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    depends on what your going to shoot out of it. for general self defense plinking and just fun shooting i like 1/9 twist which allows heavier 60ish grain bullets while retaining the ability to use lighter 55 grain type rounds. for target shooting i like 1/8 or 1/7 and run sierra 69grn match grade bthp.

    as stated above going below 16inches involves nfa rules or welding a flash hider. if your not going the nfa or pistol route its pointless to go less than 16 inches.

    personally i dont see any real point going past 62grains with a short barrel, your already giving up a lot of velocity by going small so upping the bullet weight 70+ reduces that even more. the power of a AR15 is its speed. im a huge fan of the 55grain fmj for self defense and plinking its a good mix.

    if you choose to run 75grn target bullets your looking at a 20"+ barrel anyway. fast twists on a short barrel to me doesnt make sense

    but thats my personal opinion and how i use my ar15's

    i like wilson barrels for target use RRA primarily uses wilson barrels.

    300 yds open sights RRA National Match Service Rifle using 69grn sierra match bthp

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  5. MikeJK

    MikeJK New Member

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    If you're running a short barrel such as a SBR you want a heavier bullet to make up for the lower velocity, correct?
     
  6. Car54

    Car54 New Member

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    Best value for the money: Palmetto State Armory.
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Depends on your theory of use. At ranges over 200 yards regardless of bullet weight velocity out of a very short barrel becomes a problem. Thats why the military m4 has a rough time at the longer ranged targets fighting the muslim brotherhood.

    Short range city house to house or oh sht sd situations when its up close doesnt matter.

    What really matters is the varience of the ballistic coefficients of different bullets and exactly how far out your chosen round in a given barrel drops below supersonic. How much drop your given loading has. Then you have info on which you can base your decision.

    The reason i like 55grain fmj is because with a 100yd zero it will hit minute of goblin from 0 to 300 yards holding center mass sight picture and liekly disintegrate on impact stopping all aggressive action quickly.

    I like 69grain for target shooting because it hase a good mix of retained velocity and a nice coeffficient that keeps bullet drop inside the adjustment range of the iron sights out to 600yds. Plus its what my nm rifle likes the best ;)

    Its not the only solution to the problem its just what my preference is with my reasoning behind my individual choice. It also means i can keep the shooting lessons simple for my wife so she can retain what she learns.

    Its easy for her to know all she has to do is put the sight on the goblin's chest and pull the trigger until he stops. Simple. She doesnt have to factor in wind or bullet drop just remember center mass. This lets her engage targets out to 300yds and not worry about all the whys and wheres of shooting.
     
  8. Fixer

    Fixer New Member

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    PSA and Rainier Arms have the best deals on barrels for the money. I'll toss up my ammo chart for visual reference. This isnt a bible page, just a chart I made for trainees to easily see the relationship to twist and length of ammo.
    [​IMG]

    I agree with JonM to a point. I just see the flip side to his argument on SBRs ammo choice.

    If you are going for a 10" SBR, you want to use a really long projectile. You are looking at a under 200 yard rifle anyway. I'd go for the 1/7 on a 10" myself. I'd only shoot MK262 at that point. My philosophy would be, "short barrel = short range, less power from that short barrel needs more bang and more projectile = fast twist of 1/7."

    Once you start adding distance into the equation you need more barrel and less of a twist. 1/8 being the best choice, but 1/9 is prevalent since most use a 55 to 62 grain projectile. You start adding more requirements like killing potencial past 300 yards...now you again need a longer projectile and faster twist for not only accuracy, but stability to keep the projectile going nose first into the target where it will properly fragment. The 69+ grain ammo will not start its tumble until after the 100 yard mark in a 1/9 meaning the nose will strike as needed.... but the short barrel gives less energy so there is a chance of a tumble sooner, meaning its best to use a 1/7 twist at that point.

    Many of the helicopter pig extermination videos on youtube show guys using both 1/9 and 1/7 twist barrel with heavy long ammo and the pigs drop like rocks. That tells me MOST of the hits are striking nose first and fragmenting causing large wound channels destroying soft tissue and severing vital nervous system communication. So this tells me all the guys who claim you MUST have a 1/7 are not as correct as they think they are. I do see the logic in a 1/7 and SBR... I am just not a strong supporter of 1/7 as a must.
     
  9. GaMatt72

    GaMatt72 New Member

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    I am new to the AR I have shot several but have many questions. I want to go with a shorter barrel just cause I like compact rifles. After reading all 14s will be pinned and welded I may just stick with the 16. All the ranges around me seem to be 200 and under. I have shot my old 308 out at 500 but that was a long time ago. I want to be able to shoot heavier loads as well as the lighter stuff. Just never know what will be available. The twist is the biggest confusion. It seems anyone using heavy loads only say 1/7. So 1/8 would be a better all around twist?
     
  10. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    Unless your willing to give up energy and velocity with a short barrel and pay 200 and 5 extra bucks to the govermant and wait for many months to see if you get there ok to own a short barreled rifle just buy a 16" barrel.

    Get a 1/8 twist then as that twist will shoot 50gr up to 72 gr fine. Are you building , buying or upgradeing a rifle . You can get a good barrel for general range time shooting tight groups and hunting from AR performance with there melonite coated R5 barrels.- http://www.ar15performance.com/5_56_223
     
  11. GaMatt72

    GaMatt72 New Member

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    I am building I will not use it for hunting as I have a 308 for that. I will more then likely go with a 16 after what you guys say. I don't want to wait for ever but I believe if I did I will get it. I liked the short barrels I have shot. As long as I can shoot the heavier loads I don't care. I want a good all around rifle that will take anything I can feed it. You never know what we be able to get down the road.
     
  12. MikeJK

    MikeJK New Member

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    The SBR is a tool for a particular job. I'd imagine if there was the posibility of being faces w/ an extended yard shot the SBR would get left home.

    The 16" is a great gen purpose length.

    I have purchased a barrel from ARP and was happy.
     
  13. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    My SBR barrel is 7.5" and its a 1:9 twist which will shoot my 55-62gr perfectly , My buddy has a similar setup and his shoots dead nuts with 55 gr at 100 yards 2" groupings with cheapo steel ammo , I think is fabulous for a 7.5" barrel @ 100 yards , Im sure it would still hit within 4" at 200 yards but he only has 100 yards to shoot since the crops are starting to come up , when the crops are gone we have about 450 to shoot
     
  14. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    @ Fixer.

    I'm curious, why do you feel that barrel length is porportional to twist rate?

    When did you make that chart?
     
  15. Fixer

    Fixer New Member

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    I think I made that chart about 10 years ago. I re-made it and posted it on CGN maybe 2 years ago.

    The barrel length is more of a user ability thing than a twist rate dependant thing. Its a actual use philosophy thing. A 10" SBR isnt an AT&T rifle... (reach out and touch someone). So why choose a load or twist based on that. The 1/7 twist is best used to stabilize a heavy long round at distance, BUT it also helps at close range to tighten up the keyhole effect. Its possible a 1/9 will allow a long heavy round to start a yaw just past 100 yards esp when the barrel has some wear on it. Its not a hard and fast rule, but one I keep in the back of my mind.

    I use a 1/9 even with 77gr ammo, but I expect keyholes and poor performance past a certain distance.

    EDIT- The reduced energy or velocity of a 10" increases that poor performance and allows it to happen at shorter distances. You can talk me out of this logic if you have supporting data saying otherwise.

    Thats just me. YMMV
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  16. GaMatt72

    GaMatt72 New Member

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    So a 16in barrel is what I will go with. Now if I am reading right the best twist for long and short is 1/7 or 1/8? The twist is what confuses me more. I don't know why it just does. Lol.
     
  17. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    In all honesty most box ammo on the shelves are going to be 55 gr thats whats most common anyway . I personally would go 1:9 it will allow a wider use of different weights and still shoot most anything you can buy on the shelf accurately. Really its all personal preference but this would be my choice if I did it all over again .
     
  18. Fixer

    Fixer New Member

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    You want a twist that produces the best stabilization for the ammo you are going to shoot. You then need (or should) develop a mindset of rules that governs your use of the rifle. As in.. This is my general purpose 16" carbine. Its used for 200 yard and under ____________. Hunting, Selfdefense, Ranch work, Yot extermination...blah blah blah. You are not going to be using this 16" carbine for 800 yard prairie dog hunting nor will you be using it (wisely) as a long distance firearm between you and someone armed. All you are going to be doing is giving that guy 800 yards away a flash to aim at with his 308 and 10X scope.

    So if your GPC (General Purpose Carbine) has a 1/9 twist, you should expect the best performance from a 62gr and under bullet. If it has a 1/7 twist you can expect the best performance from a 69gr and above bullet. The 1/8 will be the best of both worlds...BUT that doesnt mean you can not use a 1/9 to shoot 77gr ammo. You just need to understand what limitations that choice has. The best way to figure that out is practice with it. See what it does at 300 yards.

    I choose a 1/9 since 90% of my ammo is 62 or 55 gr. I do shoot 77gr, but understand what happens when I do.

    Hope this helps.
     
  19. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Twist rate is just that one turn of the bullet ever 7" of barrel for 1:7 etc for each rate . 1:7 spins bullets faster down the tube which is needed to stabilize a heavier round like a 78 -85 gr bullet . you need lesser twist for lighter bullets
     
  20. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    The simple:

    16" Barrel for general purpose use, a 1x9 x8 x7 twist will work for the most common ammo (55 and 62 grain fmjs)

    55gr FMJ are the most popular (due to price and availability) ammo. Chances are this is probably what you will be shooting exclusively. x7 x8 x9 will work, with 1x9 being the most opticmal.



    If you have a more specific type of ammo (tracers, 80 grain, 77 gr smks), or more specific uses, (like long distance work, or barrier penetration requirements) you may want to get a faster twist rate (1x7 or 1x8) If you want lighter, shorter varmint type bullets, consider a 1x9 or 1x12.