What are you thoughts?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by HM2Grunt, May 23, 2014.

  1. HM2Grunt

    HM2Grunt New Member

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    What are your thoughts regarding selling of stocks in your retirement money, and buying collectible firearms as a hedge.

    I am a retied old man. The kids are grown, and out of the house. So is the wife.

    I have begun to think that my money is not really safe in the market. I keep hearing that our economy will tank, along with Europe's. If it goes, then all that money that is on the computer in the form of stock, will go away, (except for the money that the CEO's salaries and their sweet severance packages).

    To diversify, I have started to take money out, and buy collectible rifles that I have always dreamed of having. The prices of guns seems to always increase. In the 1980's, I bought a WW2 .45 ACP for $200,(the guy had a whole bunch of them on his table at a gun show. For $300, I could have bought one with,"Property of USN" on it. I bought a Winchester-made M1 carbine for $400. If I wanted to buy them today, I could not afford to buy the Colt. The Inland carbine I bought a month ago cost me more than $1500.

    I got my C&R, and have begun to collect rifles used by the USA from the Civil war, to the present, walnut and steel, (stopping at plastic and steel).

    If I leave money in stocks, and have money in guns, I won't lose it all if the market fails.

    If the swat team comes to confiscate my collection, I will still have money in the market.

    But then, I will be royally screwed if the market fails, and the goon squads arrive at the same time.

    To tell the truth though, I would much rather examine and hold a classic, something tangible, than a stock quote.
     

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  2. Franklin1995

    Franklin1995 New Member

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    My father has a lot of his money in old coins. Coins that aren't just worth the amount of silver or gold in them. No matter what happens to the markets, there will always be a demand for historic coins, and the value will be the same.

    I can't imagine that investing in rifles would be a very smart move, unless they were historic pieces. Even then, I would be careful. Then again, I am just a 19 year old who still has a lot to learn about economics!
     

  3. Steel_Talon

    Steel_Talon New Member

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    Firearm collection is very particular to individuals. Finding a popular niche, and being able to buy low to sell high later down the road. Might just be too lengthy to see significant return...
     
  4. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    If it were myself,I'd invest in gold and silver before I'd start buying firearms for investments. I have a very large firearms collection,but I don't consider them an investment opportunity. While some firearms do have a very good return on the investment,if you're buying them today,you're on the losing end of their investment gains.
     
  5. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    HM2Grunt, I sure can't fault you for buying something that you want. I doubt your historic guns investment will increase dramatically in a market crash but like you say they would be more valuable than worthless stocks. And maybe it will be good for your outlook on life if you have some interesting firearms around that you've always wanted.

    I worry about the same thing happening and think it is important to buy things of value now that would be unattainable in a crisis situation. Food, water, batteries, etc. - the things you'd need to get by at home for a few weeks if necessary. If it goes longer than that then we're all in a world of hurt.

    Some modern guns (plus ammo and magazines) might not be a bad idea, too. ARs are quite cheap now, but as we've seen their price skyrockets in a crisis. Much more so than a historic firearm.
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    There are at least two different aspects to your situation- growth in value, and PRESERVATION of value.

    Growth- I have a dollar. In a year, I want that to be $1.10.
    Preservation- I have a dollar. In a year, I will have $1.10, but it will only buy what $1 buys today.

    Unfortunately, my crystal ball is in the shop for calibration, an oil change and a front end alignment. Lacking an infallible guide to future moves of the economy (hell- if I HAD such a thing, would I be hanging out here???) I diversify my investments. Some in stocks, some in bonds, some in interest bearing, some in metals (actual metals I can hold in my hand- NOT paper that says I own metals) real estate, guns, etc. Have guns increased in relative value? Most have. Especially mainstream maker classic guns- higher grade Winchesters, Brownings, etc.

    Problem with guns- lack of liquidity and cost of liquidating. Yes, I bought a Colt Python, held it for a while, sold it for 20% more than I paid 2 years ago. Now deduct the fee I paid to Gunbroker, and my shipping costs. Oh, I made 10% over 2 years. But wait- inflation went up by 4% a year- I made 2% in 2 years. And it took 3 months to sell at the price I wanted.

    There ARE guns that have increased sharply in value- pre-64 Winchesters, etc. But WHICH guns will have a sharp increase in the future? THAT is the question- and you need a DeLorean with a flux capacitor to answer that.

    In the meantime, it does not hurt to have some of your investable funds in guns. I can't take my stock certificates to the range for a fun afternoon.
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    PS- story was that a fellow was trying to sell W.C. Fields on an investment scheme.

    Fields responded- "All my money is tied up in stocks and bonds. Yes, stocks and bonds. Silk stockings and bonded whiskey."

    :p
     
  8. TLuker

    TLuker Active Member

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    My thoughts are similar to Quentin's. Collectables. including guns, are luxury items and if the economy crashes then the bottom is going to fall out of the market for all luxury items. Who would even think about buying a gun for collecting during an economic crash? Now a gun as a tool is a different matter. A gun as a tool will always have value so long as there is a need for that tool. So I would look more at guns for how usable they still are. An M1 carbine is still very functional and I would consider that something that would hold it's value but the things that make it collectable and very valuable now might not matter in an economic melt down? A smooth bore musket might not be so useful despite it being very valuable now as a collectable?

    And like Quentin, I think it's important to buy things of value now. Even if the economy doesn't crash inflation is going to be an issue for sometime. We can already see real things of value skyrocketing in price compared to what those same things cost just a few years ago. Quality things like tools are also getting harder and harder to find as manufacturers make things cheaper and cheaper. It's getting tough to even find a steal tape measure (plain old tape measure) because all the manufactures are going to plastic. For that matter look at all the plastic in guns now. And the decline in quality and being made really well is what makes those pre 64 model 70's worth so much. No one makes them like that any more and we wouldn't be able to afford it if they did. So buy the things now that you like that might not be affordable in a few years. Things that hold there value that is. A night in Vegas doesn't count. :)
     
  9. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    Here's another one for silver & gold. Bullion, or bullion coins, not numismatic coins. Collectable coins is a specialty, with issues much like collector guns. You can easily be on the loosing end of that, too. But bullion is pretty straight foreword. Buy quality, and hold (store) it YOURSELF. If anybody else stores it, including a safety deposit box, it's the same thing as a stock. Ride out the lows, (it's low now, good time to buy), and roll in it like Scrooge McDuck.
     
  10. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    I think that Guns & Ammo are GREAT investments !................
     
  11. HM2Grunt

    HM2Grunt New Member

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    I am not so much for making big money as I am to just having something that will not lose value in my hands, and something I can take to the range while I can still enjoy them. Something that if the value of a fiat currency goes away, can still be used in a barter economy
     
  12. HM2Grunt

    HM2Grunt New Member

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    Gold and silver are fine if they hold value, but you can't take them to the range to enjoy with friends and family. I am not so concerned with waiting it out, and realizing a large gain because I don't know that I have that much time left on the planet. If the world does go in the can, as some preppers suggest, tools, like guns, will be of more use in subsisting than stocks, or even bullion/coins. Unless there is a viable economy, gold will be of less value than tools,(guns and ammo), and food
     
  13. HM2Grunt

    HM2Grunt New Member

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    I may have misspoke when I said "historic" guns. The rifles that I collect are examples of historic rifles, but are not attributable to any specific person or incident. Presently I have collected arms that mean something to me because at some time I have used, or have been issued and carried one. (Not the Civil war guns, I like them because I like black powder history). My arms are not luxury items. They are all fully functional
     
  14. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    Well, that IS what G&S do; hold value. They will protect you from inflation, and more importantly, is no one else's liability. True, guns can show you a good time, when G&S can't...But if the world DOES go in the can, G&S could still be very handy, depending upon the circumstances. What if somebody has something you want, but you don't have anything they want? Trade G&S, it will be trusted, and they can use it to get what they want. Basically, it would be a medium of exchange. And I'd hedge my bets more towards ammo than guns. Without the ammo, the gun is useless. The gun will last a century +, and ammo production could cease tomorrow.
     
  15. HM2Grunt

    HM2Grunt New Member

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    [QUOTE

    Some modern guns (plus ammo and magazines) might not be a bad idea, too. ARs are quite cheap now, but as we've seen their price skyrockets in a crisis. Much more so than a historic firearm.[/QUOTE]

    I would like to find an "old school" M-16 with the triangular forearm. Guess I need to look for an original old Colt AR-15
     
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i have a sizeable amount of money invested in my firearms, but don't consider them to be an investment that will give me a huge return on the money i spent on them sometime in the future.

    i don't fault anyone who buys a gun for an investment, and many people do. i buy what appeals to me, and what i think will do the job i buy it for and to gain enjoyment from using it.
     
  17. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I'm in the same boat. Since 1971 I've picked up useful firearms that appealed to me. In that amount of time I've accumulated quite a few keepers but none have true collector value except a like new all matching 1941 Luger. The Luger was a lucky find but too valuable to shoot. It's the only one that's worth way more than I paid for it but no pleasure as far as shooting it. Fortunately my mixed numbers 1913 Luger can be shot, in fact I put 50 rounds through it today! Normally I want guns that I can fire and enjoy.

    We're so fortunate to have the right to own firearms that I wouldn't begrudge anyone from buying what they want!
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  18. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    People mention how much an M1 has gone up. Really an M1 has not kept up with inflation. When you could buy an M1 for $100 I bought a new one ton truck loaded with everything, leather seats, AC power everything for $5,700 cash. Now the same truck would cost north of $60k and it would cost $10 to crank it. I bought 135 acres of land for $60k. Now the taxes on the land are as much as the payments were when I bought it.
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    as that i have what i consider my needs in guns covered and have for many years, most of all my purchases for several years have been guns i want rather than truly need. but at the same time, they can still cover the need if the situation did come up.

    now in the discussion of need arising from talking with the wife, i always use the word "need" and never "want"!:p
     
  20. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Again, same here. My most recent purchases have been more want instead of need. Filling gaps in an already solid collection when I came across a good deal. I certainly wouldn't make a lot of money over my purchase price but wouldn't get hurt bad either, which comes back to the OP's topic.