What am I doing Wrong?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder & Musket' started by HAVEGUN, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. HAVEGUN

    HAVEGUN New Member

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    OK

    First time with my black power revolver.

    I have a Pietta reproduction 1860 Army.

    Took it to the range and loaded one cylinder.

    Thing goes fizz bang and not mark on the target.

    Examine gun, ball is stuck bout an inch in the barrel from the cylinder.

    OK.I take it home examine the gun and punch out the ball.
    This is what I find.
    [​IMG]

    I dunno what to make of it so I clean the gun again, this time leaving the cyclinders dry, zero oil.

    Couple of days later go back to the range.

    Load one cylinder, fizz bang, nothing. Ball never made out out of the cylinder.

    So I am thinking, just load another and try.

    Fizz bang I hit the target, I am not impressed, so I load another cyclyneer.

    Fizz bang, ball stuck in the cylinder.

    Now I am thinking maybe not enough powder, so I increased the amount from 15 FFG to 20.

    Fired, fizz bang, it hit the target.

    Well, I took the gun apart and in the two failed cylinders was a significant amount of powder left.

    Only thing I can think of is am I using the correct caps? #10?

    Am I measuring the powder correctly?

    What's with the delay with the time hammer hits cap and explosion?

    The fizz bang thing?

    This gun is really cool, and I would like to have fun with it.
     
  2. moonpie

    moonpie New Member

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    been a long time since i shot black. pour some powder into a spoon or bottle cap and see if it burns evenly.
     

  3. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    What kind of powder did you use? The idea of testing it is good. I have an 1851 Navy and an 1860 Army. Both great guns though I think I like the 1860 better. I have used both black powder and pyrodex with no problem usually 25 to 30 grains. My powder is not new, but well sealed. The stuff will degrade if it gets much moisture in it. If it doesn't burn with a good "woosh", pick up another pound., fresh. It doesn't cost much and lasts a long time as long as you keep it dry.

    One more thing, make sure you use a wad under the bullet or coat the end of the bullet, cylinder with Crisco or GunButter or something other than oil. This will prevent chain firing which hurts!!! Enjoy!!

    Dave :):)
     
  4. moonpie

    moonpie New Member

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    i just looked at your pic again. what's your exact loading process ,step by step? are you doing "powder-ball-butter" or "powder-butter-ball"?
     
  5. towboater

    towboater Active Member

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    Looks like powder butter ball to me.

    Should be loaded powder then ball, then butter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  6. KABAR2

    KABAR2 New Member

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    It does look that way, try loading the ball first and then grease,
    I think you are contaminating your powder with the lube.... how long
    between loading and shooting? is it a hot summer day?
     
  7. cgersty

    cgersty New Member

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    I have the same exact cap and ball, I use the fffg pyrodex for pistols in mine, I use 30 grains powder, lubed fiber wonder wad, and hornady swage free .454 balls, winchester #10 magnum caps, and I only use wonder lube I never ever use regular oil in any of my black powder guns, also I usually fire 2 rounds of just caps (12) caps one the nipples before loading with powder and ball, this will help clear any oily residue from the nipples before firing. This works awesome for me.

    Gersty

    I suggest reading these

    How to properly use that cap & ball revolver [Archive] - Benelli USA Forums

    http://www.dubbs.info/bbs/showthread.php?tid=40

    Cap N Ball Basics
     
  8. HAVEGUN

    HAVEGUN New Member

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    First of all, I appreciate all the comments.

    I know to first load the powder, Wonder wad then the ball.

    I went by the manufacturer recommendation of between 10-15 grains. To my eye this seems somewhat a small amount, that is why I felt no problem using 20grs, which worked, barely.

    Next time around, I am going for the 25/30 grain as cgersty suggested. I just needed somebody to tell me my instinct, of more power was right.

    Oh BTW, chersty, where do you live so when I blow my hand apart so I could sue you?:D

    More powder is along the lines on my thinking, just needed a stranger to reafferm my thinking.
     
  9. neilage66

    neilage66 New Member

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    Ummm, we try to stay colorblind around here.

    Fight the power!

    ;)

    :D
     
  10. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_BYjI4kNRI]Uncle Chuck Loading and Firing the 1860 Colt Army .45 Cap and Ball - YouTube[/ame]
     
  11. cgersty

    cgersty New Member

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    I use FFFG Pyrodex that is made for pistols, the FFG that you said you are using is for rifles so the grains are different, 10-15 grains of FFG should be sufficient but I have no idea since I use the pistol powder in my pistols, and the rifle powder in my rifles.

    Gersty
     
  12. HAVEGUN

    HAVEGUN New Member

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    Uhh, I'll leave that alone.:)
     
  13. cgersty

    cgersty New Member

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    What diameter balls are you shooting out of yours? When you load them you want the cylinder to shave a little ring of lead off of them.

    Gersty
     
  14. HAVEGUN

    HAVEGUN New Member

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    .451"
    A bit is shaved when I push it in. I expected that though it seemed a bit tight to me. But then this is new to me.
     
  15. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I only use FFFG in pistols. FFG is for rifles. I have used FFFG in Rifles. But not the other way around. FFG is a slower burning powder.

    Is anyone else here using FFG in pistols?
     
  16. Hawg

    Hawg New Member

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    Yep, Pyrodex RS almost exclusively. I can't tell any difference shooting offhand between that and P. From the pics it looks like powder contamination.
     
  17. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    3F is a decent pistol powder, unless you are shooting one of those New Orleans Aces 22s.

    Yes, a ball and cap revolver should shave a ring of lead as you load it- that is sizing the ball to fit the barrel (and to fit the charge hole of the cylinder)

    For a .44 or .45 caliber, your initial powder charges were pretty light.

    The powder is not getting lit for whatever reason. Either #10 or #11 caps should do the job (more of what fits on the nipples) Prior to loading, I snap a cap on each nipple- just to clean any oil or crud from the nipple. I load powder, ball, and lube OVER the ball.

    I would probably get another tin of caps and try those to see if they gave better results. Be sure the caps fit snugly all the way down on the nipple, and that they stay there.

    While many people DO use a greased patch under the ball, i don't. It takes up room needed for powder, and good lube over the ball will control chainfire.

    Pyrodex can be harder to light than real black powder, but the straight line system of a revolver should not have a problem with it. I would use Pyrodex PISTOL powder.
     
  18. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    You received a lot of great info with this thread, Havegun. I learned something as well. I had never seen anyone use a pyrodex pellet in a revolver. I didn't think that the cap would light it off since the flame hole is not super large and the caps are nowhere near as hot as a 409 cap used on a modern muzzleloader. Enjoy your pistol. I should have noticed the heavy mix of grease on your bullet like Moonpie did, but missed it. Great observation, Moonpie!

    Dave :)
     
  19. Hawg

    Hawg New Member

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    Who said anything about pellets? I know some people have used them but the ones I've seen try didn't have very good results.
     
  20. dgray64

    dgray64 New Member

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    They were demonstrated as part of the loading process in the video.

    Dave:)